Been thinking about ptsd

[EmandNsmom]

I was just sitting here looking over titles of past messages and even reading over some of them. Marc(Reconsgt), and I were talking about PTSD the other day. I was telling him that I think it is time to be proactive in a "quest" of some sorts to get the word out about ptsd. Not just the bad stuff the media shows all the time. It's just that I"ve noticed that when you are discussing the matter of someone having it, people act as if A)you've just signed a death warrant with their name on it or B) You kind of told them that you're crazy. I tend to tell people these days, just to be as informed as possible when it comes to that. I know there are others like Marc .. men and women both comming home from the current war who need help other than just that "wonderful" Redeployment counseling they take right after they return home to Iraq. It hasn't done any good since no symptoms of Ptsd seem to occur at least several months after they return home. They tell you to get help, but when you try to, your chain of command basically dogs you and the soldier not only is discharged, but is left feeling even worse., not to mention the fact that there isn't much help for spouses of the soldier, who may be experiencing a second for of ptsd. I would just like to know what I can do to get the message out to not just soldiers, but the military wives that they aren't alone and someone understands them, other than the usual advice they may recieve about how they should be supporting their husbands. :opps: Not that supporting the soldier is a bad thing, just from my own experience right now, we just need a little support too. Anyway, imput would be great. I would like to know what I can do for these women.

Just my 2centswort ,
Stephanie

[Shawn Powell]

Stephanie,

Have you and Mark read NAMVET yet by Chuck Dean? Please order it if you haven't... it covers all of the above.
Also understand that the US Army is full of perfumed princes, ass-kissing politicians who WILL NEVER admit that there is a problem with PTSD... to do so would admit 1) a personal weakness; a chink in the armor of machismo 2) career/political suicide 3) put them in a position of accountability for their problems and those of their soldiers.
As far as the wives and children are concerned, dialogue with them, prep them for what may rear its head at the end of the 'incubation period' and AUTHENTICALLY rely on God's grace and mercy.
We can't play church in this respect, dear... we come to God broken, fully aware of our hurts and struggles, our sin and shame. God told Paul that HIs grace was sufficient for him, HIs strength is made perfect in Paul's weakness. That's when the road to healing begins. I think it says in Isaiah... I don't know what chapter and verse, sorry... that "A bruised reed will He not break, a smoldering wick will He not snuff out." Hey man, that's US with a heart that cries out "Daddy, please help...."
Let me just conclude that before the earth was even formed, the God of this universe... the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... the God of the armies of Israel... saw you and that great Man of God you have as a hubby and those precious kids and KNEW you guys were gonna go through this. He was never caught off guard and He is still in complete control.
Your family is going to touch peoples' lives and comfort them with the comfort you have received.

God Bless.

Shawn.

[Don Dodson]

You are both right! We who know something about PTSD can and must help educate those who mistakenly think it is either phoney or some character defect. The spouses and children of PTSD sufferers regardless of the cause (e.g. from war, crime, fatal traffic collision, neglect, 9-11, etc.) truly are the overlooked victims. God blessed me so much when he brought my lovely bride into my life. I was back from Vietnam 2 years when we were married and I thought I was "fine." She got blind-sided like many brides not knowing what PTSD was; in 1972 nobody talked about it. She has stayed with me through the denial malfunctioning years and has been my partner in recovery for the last ten or so years, as I began to learn how to manage my relatively minor case of PTSD.

I think every church today needs to have a designated veteran-military ministry, either of their own or "outsourced" through Point Man, that includes the families. There are several very good handouts for wives and families that we have at Point Man Outpost meetings. If you don't have access to them send me a "Private Message" with your snail mail address and I'll mail you some.

Like Shawn pointed out, the military-industrial complex has a heavy investment in denying the human costs of war; it is bad for "business." Some news media is now picking up the stories, like reporting on the New England Journal of Medicine study indicating "that up to 17% [of returnees] have been diagnosed with major depression, anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder" (PTSD). If we do the math, then somewhere like 250,000 suffer some invisible wounds. My personal opinion, based on my 35 years living with PTSD and talking with a few others, is that these numbers only scratch the surface and there are many many more sufferers than answer "yes" to any questions. As you both know, with a career military now, weakness is not tolerated and the bosses see admiting invisible wounds as weakness.
I know that God will use these current wars for His glory and purposes. Our prayer needs to be that returnees find God's healing grace before they fall into the devil's trap of alcoholism, drugs, damaging extreme thrill seeking, suicide, etc. The VA and physical medicine can only go so far in helping PTSD. The indwelling Holy Spirit is Who we must rely upon.

God bless you all. WELCOME HOME!

Don "Oboeman" Dodson
DodsonOboeVet@NorthernTrail.net

[ReconSGT_OIF]

Like my sweetie said, people tend to think youre crazy and weak. When I was still in and I brought my "issues" up to the chain of command several things happened. #1- people didnt think I could handle responsibility... even before it was decided that i would be medically discharged for this, the positions that I held were taken away from me. I was taken out of my position of direct leadership of soldiers and placed in a support, assistant section chief role. And even then, the soldiers were skittish to follow my instructions, because of the treatment i was recieving, it seemed to them that I was "one of them" and not really in charge of anything. #2- chain of command thought i was faking it... making it up. I remember when I did my final out and I said goodbye to everyone at work, one person came up to me and asked if this is some kind of grand scheme to get out and mooch off the government. Our Sergeant Major and commander treated me like crap from the onset of my issues and the word came DIRECTLY from the top that even though I got an honorable discharge, I was to recieve NO DISCHARGE AWARD! We had soldiers that injured themselves in kuwait and didnt even cross the border with us into iraq that recieved ARCOM's when they were med boarded out. But it was like a slap in the face for me.

[EmandNsmom]

Hello everyone! Marc and I were talking yesterday. We were discussing our 7 yo daughter Emily. I was thinking about the effects that Marc going to Iraq had on her and myself both. She was almost 6 when he left. It effected the both of us. I myself endured somewhat similar symptoms to Marc. I went through, anger, depression, anxiety. I did some research and found that there is a form of Secondary PTSD that can occur from having a loved one in a lifethreatening situation, and over stress of the uncertainty, etc. Would I incorrect to even percieve the thought that children who are of a certain age to understand what is happening, could have similar fears etc. Such as uncertainty that the parent won't have to leave again, not to mention the fact that kids have a great imagination. I remember when they had the oil fires going on... I was watching the news and Emily asked me if her daddy died. Of course I reassured her and we prayed, not to mention I became aware of just how much she got about where Marc was etc. Of course that was the last time I watched the news around her. After Marc came home she had nightmares, etc. I really think their needs to be age specific programs designed for children to help them deal with their feelings. It's alot for the little ones to take in. As a parent and adult, I have realized that alot of times I have forgotten too often that some children(depending on age), have their own set of feelings about what has transpired as well. I also don't think that military wives are about hubbies initial comming home. The Army was so busy cramming information in my brain that even the whole redeployment counseling didn't help. And then when our hubbies did experience ptsd, or we had high emotions because of months and months of stress uncertainty, it was placed on the back burner and we were once again told to just support our husbands. I believe problems occured because of that. I believe that it's like one big circle. Everyone in the family as a whole is effected not just by that vetern having ptsd, but by that soldier being at war. We all have fought our own war(weather that be the one at the homefront, or the one where the actual fighting is going on). I just think that on the whole sceme of things, we just need to give equal support to each other, but realize there are different emotional needs that need to be met. And as you said Shawn, "rely on the God's grace to get us through each day". All I know is I am the adult child of a vietnam vet with ptsd, which he was never diagnose, and I am the wife of an OIF Vet with ptsd. I guess I want to do something for the women and their children, because that is my level of experience. I believe that God is calling to some higher purpose in that, because I do, at some level or other do understand the stresses of trying to raise a family, and meet everyone's needs physically and emotionally, with noone but God to draw emotional strength from. I've realized that yes he is all I need, but as I am sure alot of newer vets wives feel, we need others to understand stand us as well, and need help in certain areas, dealing with that thing called war at the homefront, that we have faught. Knowing that we support our husbands,trying to be tough as nails when all we want to do is breakdown at times... then crying out for help, but in turn recieving the same old advice,"Support your husband and do more than you've been doing". I am not trying to be disrespectful in any manner or disregaurd that vets have been through heck and back. Not at all, but I do feel that it would be easier for the women behind the nem to be more supportive if they were just able to take a step back and be able to freely acknowledge the fact that they went through a personal war at home. God bless you all!
Stephanie

[EmandNsmom]

btw.. in my post.. I meant to say, "the wives aren't really prepared for hubby's initial homecomming."

[Pointman69]

I agree with all the thoughts on this thread. You're absolutely right that wives recieve little acknowledgement for their "war at home" and children get even less attention. This may be one reason there are so many divorces among veteran families and why children grow up with so much anxiety and hangups about relationships. Somehow, most of the attention regarding PTSD revolves around the veteran. Probably because wives are more supportive and understand what it takes to maintain relationships.

A lot of men, including myself, never learned those skills. Many learned just the opposite - keep relationships shallow, it doesn't hurt so much when they are destroyed. This is not an excuse but a fact that we must accept in order to begin learning all that stuff we've blocked out for years. While most young men delt with establishing and maintaining relationships between ages 18 to 25, veterans were thrust into totally different types of relations. We depended on one another in life and death situations, but we only knew each other by nick-names and we didn't want to know anymore. Our first priority was to keep ourselves alive, everything else was secondary.

This is not the type of relationship needed in a marriage. Veterans didn't learn how to sacrifice, nurture, negotiate, or die to self. We were sad for the sacrifice of others, but thankful it wasn't us. We usually left individuals alone if they were in a bad mood, they could seriously hurt you. The military structure left no room for negotiating, every command needed to instantly obeyed or someone would die. Dying to self in a war was the stuff of heros, when it happened it was instantainious - not consciously thought out as giving up our hopes and desires like Christ did for the Church.

My wife has stayed with me through all the years of my denial that Vietnam could be a root cause of my emotional termoil and her torment. It had to be something else, I buried everything to do with Vietnam in my mind - I couldn't be wrong, or I'd have to deal with that stuff having no idea how. It seemed easier to continue with denial.

Of course that fostered many terrible fights - it could't be Vietnam, so it must be something else in one of us. You can imagine or maybe have experienced fighting with a survivor. My focus and priority was me, which I'm finally seeing as total self centeredness.

I'm embarrassed but God sees all we are and is changing us into the new creatures He made in us. I wish it would instantly change, but most of God's processes take time.

It seems that wives and children of veterans have been delt a bad hand in life. The only thing I can offer is that God knew what it would take for me to finally trust Him. I had no where else to turn, I tried all the other options and they didn't work. He knew that, and wanted me where I am today. He's not done either, He is replacing everything I lost in the world system with gifts and blessings in His spiritual reality.

Now, I want to learn how to restore my marriage on His terms. More of my understanding will die, and my mechanism of self protection will be overcome by trusting in Him. God has the victory. Don't focus on what is behind, but look forward to what is and what will be. Praise Him in all things - that's the faith and hope He has given us.

I too feel God wants to help other veterans, and my heart goes out to our returning soldiers from Iraq and Afganistan. How can we reach them? How can we tell them we've been there? How can we let them know we want to listen to their stories and share what the Great Healer has already done in very similar situations? They need to know they are not alone and not different from "everyone else." Their reactions were normal for a desperately abnormal situation. They've changed, and can't get back to where they were, but that can be OK. Rewarding relationships are possible, even after their horrific experiences.

God help us reach them.

[EmandNsmom]

I am glad I am getting positive responses. I didn't write what I did to disrespect or be ugly in any way. I was just sharing my own thoughts and feelings and do agree with the views expressed. I appreciate the feedback. As I have told Marc time and again, I can't possibly know what he dealt with and went through being in Iraq and visa versa. I love him unconditionally. I can't say everday has been smooth sailing but as we learn more about each other and pray through and do rely on God, we continue to grow together in this journey.

Blessings!
Stephanie

[Shawn Powell]

Like my sweetie said, people tend to think youre crazy and weak. When I was still in and I brought my "issues" up to the chain of command several things happened. #1- people didnt think I could handle responsibility... even before it was decided that i would be medically discharged for this, the positions that I held were taken away from me. I was taken out of my position of direct leadership of soldiers and placed in a support, assistant section chief role. And even then, the soldiers were skittish to follow my instructions, because of the treatment i was recieving, it seemed to them that I was "one of them" and not really in charge of anything. #2- chain of command thought i was faking it... making it up. I remember when I did my final out and I said goodbye to everyone at work, one person came up to me and asked if this is some kind of grand scheme to get out and mooch off the government. Our Sergeant Major and commander treated me like crap from the onset of my issues and the word came DIRECTLY from the top that even though I got an honorable discharge, I was to recieve NO DISCHARGE AWARD! We had soldiers that injured themselves in kuwait and didnt even cross the border with us into iraq that recieved ARCOM's when they were med boarded out. But it was like a slap in the face for me.

So f!@# those guys, Soldier! The army ain't too different from the American church then, is it? THEY SHOOT THEIR WOUNDED!

You served this nation during war and you will bare the scars of it for life... you are a Warrior, Marc. You have done what the majority of society never will... you have seen things they never will... you and your buddies share a bond that wil never be broken... the sacrifices you have made, PTSD and otherwise, have changed you and your wonderful family for life... but you know what, Sarge? You got the integrity and courage and cajones grandes to admit it, to rely on JESUS... THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF YOUR FAITH... THE ONE WHOSE GONNA FINISH THE WORK HE HAS BEGUN IN YOU...! Let the perfumed princes stay in their own sh$% because it's warm... You and Steph and the kids cling to the Lord, let HIm heal you day-by-day. Will it be slow? Hell, yeah... will it absolutely suck at times? Roger, my Great American, my fine Warrior... it will suck at times! But God is faithful... it is through the pain of life that we come to Him... hurt and broken... remember bro, HIS STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT IN OUR WEAKNESS, CAN I GET A F!@#ING HOOAH BABY BOY??!!

God Bless you, you mighty man of God! You have brothers who are standing by to stand by... NO MAN WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. YOU WILL NOT BE LEFT BEHIND!!


Shawn. :cross_glo :cross_glo :cross_glo :cross_glo

[Don Dodson]

RIGHT ON, SHAWN!!!!!! Are seeing the potential birth of another Point Man Outpost and Homecare ministry?????? God doesn't waste any scars! This sometimes nightmarish experience for you and your loved ones can be seen as part of His Divine Plan to bring His healing to you and those you meet. Keep on praying and talking.

Spend lots of talk and prayer time with your children! I didn't realize until it was too late the secondary PTSD I was bringing home when I was in emergency medical services. I would call my wife and tell her I would be late, and don't turn on the TV. Eventually the toll of shootings, plane crashes, traffic collisions, etc. set in place fears in my family that still pop up. Our daughters were little, then, and couldn't separate what was happening to others and their fears it would happen to us.

Anyone on this thread that does not have access to the great Point Man Handouts for families, let me know and I'll mail them to you FREE; just like our Lord's gift to us.

Don Dodson, La Mesa Outpost Leader
PointManMinistriesLaMesa@NorthernTrail.NET
Msg: (619) 698-4055
Home: (619) 464-2876