What about intimacy?

[Pointman69]

Unfortunately, many learned in Vietnam that intimacy was something you could rent for short periods of time. We were young and for some - those experiences were one of our first impressions of intimacy with the opposite sex. It was easy, immediate and there were no strings attached.

Back home, young women expected more from intimate relationships. They want to have a "connection," with their partner. My wife of 34 years complains bitterly (and rightfully so) that we used to talk about anything and everything before I left for Vietnam, but after coming home I changed. Neither of us recognized the change for years, but she knew things were no longer the way they used to be. (I was in denial)

She married me anyway, I think hoping the closeness would return. My emotions shut down totally after our son was molested at a day care. He was only two years old and I felt more helpless and furios than I had been in Vietnam. Lower level PTSD exploded into crippling dispair and depression that has been raging for the last 25 years.

I know this is not God's will for me or my family. I'm just beginning to learn what imtimacy really is, but right now, I wouldn't recogize a connection if one hit me in the face.

Dose anyone else want to comment on this?

[zeke]

Unfortunately, many learned in Vietnam that intimacy was something you could rent for short periods of time. We were young and for some - those experiences were one of our first impressions of intimacy with the opposite sex. It was easy, immediate and there were no strings attached.

Back home, young women expected more from intimate relationships. They want to have a "connection," with their partner. My wife of 34 years complains bitterly (and rightfully so) that we used to talk about anything and everything before I left for Vietnam, but after coming home I changed. Neither of us recognized the change for years, but she knew things were no longer the way they used to be. (I was in denial)

She married me anyway, I think hoping the closeness would return. My emotions shut down totally after our son was molested at a day care. He was only two years old and I felt more helpless and furios than I had been in Vietnam. Lower level PTSD exploded into crippling dispair and depression that has been raging for the last 25 years.

I know this is not God's will for me or my family. I'm just beginning to learn what imtimacy really is, but right now, I wouldn't recogize a connection if one hit me in the face.

Dose anyone else want to comment on this?
Not something that happens just from a combat zone. We come home to the ones that we love hoping to feel the spark that was before we left. The spark is still thier, but not the same. The feelings haven't changed but thier is a distance that has been created, as if against a wall. Over the last 25 years this distance has grown to the point of co-exsistance, very little talking and not sharing our lives with each other. If your wondering if I would seek out another woman for self gratifcation, I would have to pled the 7th Commandment.

[Pointman69]

Zeke - thanks for the reply. I identify with what you're saying. I don't understand how to rebuild our relationship with the kind of ntimacy my wife really needs. It's a new world and I don't have a map. Pointman69

[Stickthrower]

Pointman69.

I know what you feel. My wife can't understand why I can't stand to be touched when I'm asleep, etc. After today's let down I can't find the will to go on. I have lost my job, probably going to loose my wife and kids. It just never seems to end! I wonder why I came back, I should have stayed there! At least the Army had a use for me, no one else does!

:depressed

[zeke]

With all these books that get written by all these government funded experts. Haven't seen any of them make a road map yet. Once in awhile I have done some strange things, like send her roses just because or go to dinner at the beach. But it seems to jusst put a band aid on the troubles within, so I have resolved that God will show the way for me, hopefully I will be able to read that map when it happens.

That goes for you to Stickthower, thier is a need for everyone here. Maybe ours is just to reach out to others, to help them while helping ourselves. Like they told me in AA many years ago, got to hit bottom before you reach for help. Were here for you brother.

Hope this makes some sense to you men.

[Pointman69]

Stickthrower - Hours before my marriage was to break up and I knew I had totally failed as a husband and father, a fellow vet at church asked me how I was doing. I could barely breath out, "Not so good." His response took me back. "You're in a good place." What was he talking about! I was more miserable than I'd ever been and this guy's telling me I'm in a good place! I couldn't figure out if he was commenting about being in church or that he could see something more than I could.

About the only thing I did differently than I had planned a few hours earlier, was I didn't walk away from my family the next day. (it was my only solution to stop the pain) What happened the next day wasn't anything earth shaking - I heard a small voice say, "You've tried doing everthing you could think of and it all failed - now do you want to try it My way?"

I had been saved for years, but like a lot of Christains, I thought I was smart enough to pick my way through life - I had made it through Vietnam, the rest should be a piece of cake. I made decisions based on my understanding of situations, I even brought in my understanding of what I thought God would want.

After reaching the end of myself, there was nothing more to loose. Why not believe what God says he did for me, and what would it hurt now to believe that even with all my failures, God doesn't see me the way I do. What if He really did make a new creation in me and I just wasn't seeing it?

In desparation, I grabbed for the only thing left that might allow me to retain my sanity. Nothing happened immediately other than I felt free to start the search for who I am in Christ. I'm still on the journey, but sometimes I even look forward to tomorrow - because He's there waiting for me.

I wish I could say I have all the answers - which is obviously not the case from the questions I'm asking on this forum. But at least I can now ask and not be destroyed by the answers. His thoughts toward you are of peace, and not of evil.

For years I didn't think that I deserved any of the promises God has for me, and it turns out that I was right! There is nothing I can do to deserve anything other than punishment (and I was very good at punishing myself). Besides, I thought I could make pretty good decisions anyway and I kind of knew how God worked. "He helps those who help themselves."

Well, I reached that point where I knew I wasn't helping myself or anyone around me. Not only that, but looking at my record of failures, I never would be of any good to anyone. That's when I was finally able to hear God say that he's been trying to tell me that all along, and He knew what it would take to get me to this point. And it's OK that it took this long.

Now that I was willing to listen a little, He began showing me that He did it all - knowing I would fail if required to do anyting right. He has set us free indeed. The only decision we must make is to accept His gift and He does the rest. He gives faith to believe what our understanding can't grasp. He can not take back his promises, He can't lie.

I don't know if any of this makes any sense, I am praying for you. It's OK that you're in this place. I know you wouldn't choose it, we all avoid those things we see will hurt us. But God will use even this, to draw you close. Let Him.

[zeke]

Many of us want to see something happen right than, but we learn thier is no quick fix. My faith has become stronger as the years have progressed, I have started listening instead of trying to everything my own way. But with what I have read here I know that it will be long road, but we each have started. God Bless

[danausmc]

I've been real lax in posting any replies and Im very sorry I may have let some of you down....this is in response to several of the pots I have read , so not to just one thought.



What about intimacy?

Tough question. Same as trust. Same as everyother thing that we can think of.

What did you do in Vietnam or War you were involved in? You started to count the days from the time you got there to when you got on that freedom bird to the world. And you counted every day. And you thought about the world. Home. Susie. Your car . Your kids. Ya got P.O.d about Jodie, but you could let it slide.

Problem is your expectations did not match the reality. Ypur loved ones expectations did not match your reality. They grew for a year plus in safety and worrying about you, but the longer you were gone, whatever problems they had became your fault and you werent "here" so they turned to someone else. And when you came home YOU were expected to pick up wherever they were at in their life, not where you left off and when you could not do it you just retreated into a shell, drugs, alcohol, work, study, the woods, ANYWHERE where you had only minimal contact with others and now its thirty five years later and here you are....dont know what to do, dont know how to act, and dont have a plan.

The only place I see in the Bible for you to be alone is when the Scriptures say to draw away for a time to fast and pray. The rest of the time you need to be enjoying the gifts God has given you. Your family, your surroundings, your job if you have one, your one or two friends, breathing air.

If you cant think of something to be thankful for, thank God you have another day to get it right.

Thank God for those kids and that wife. You are not a failure. Gods in the forgiveness business. So if you fall, ask and God will forgive, which seems so simple, but you need to do that. If it dont seem like God is answering your prayer, sit still and listen. Stop trying to do it all on your own. If ya got issues, get in a PTSD program somewhere and get some rest. Find someone to talk to. And talk.

Life is hard but it don't have to be that way.

So now having said all that .......

what can you do.?

Start with Im sorry and mean it.

Tell God and then tell your spouse.
Start over. It is never too late.

If you aint in your home, ask her for a date.
Go out. Get to know one another. It aint about sex.
That is an intimate act, but not intimacy.

Respect is something that needs to come out.
This is the mother of your kids.
You can do it. Go slow.

Set some easily attainable goals and stick to them.
And when you reach them, set some more.
A little at a time, because there is so much to change, its overwhelming and you will quit. And you cant quit life. We aint made that way.

If you cant function, apply for disability until you can.
If its permanent, get moving and get help.
Take charge. You can do it. Take charge of your life .
Dont let circumstances control your life, take control of the circumstances. Some stuff you cant change, but you can change how you deal with it.

Suicide is not an option. NEVER. EVER. THERE IS NO VALID REASON EVER TO TAKE YOUR LIFE.

Semper Fi.

[Pointman69]

Thanks for your unique perspective - go get 'um! ... and God bless.

[danausmc]

Thanks for your unique perspective - go get 'um! ... and God bless.

I kind of got off the subject. I get lots of e-mail and phone conversations dealing with just about all we talk about in this forum.

Intimacy is up to you. Go a little at a time and expect to be "hurt". But the good outweighs the bad.....those steps worked for me and Im sure if you want to pursue the conversation....we can do it here ....

[Pointman69]

Spoken well - a little at a time and expect to be "hurt." But the good outweighs the bad. Your straight from the sholder honesty has to be a gift from the Lord. It amazes me how God uses each of us just where we're at. Thanks for coming along side.

[Don Dodson]

Pointman 69:

Have you and your wife gotten a copy of Chuck Dean's newest book "When the War is Over ... A New One Begins?" (Chuck Dean & Bette Nordberg) I think that may be a helpful place to start, kind of a "road map" if you will. I like what our brothers have posted:

1. Start with humble apology to your wife for needing to be taught what she longs for. Remember when you see the word "humble" or "humility" in the Bible it comes from a word root similar essentially meaning "teachable." Our wifes sometimes need a reminder that we really aren't the super-men they married (or we conned them into thinking we were back then with our charms :-) and we really cannot read their minds.

2. Remember Christ's promise to us: I will never leave you nor forsake you (Hebrews 13:5 & Deuteronomy 31:6). I know it doesn't feel like He is in the same fox hole when we are under fire. Our feeble little brain-minds and eyes are like radios tuned to a different set of energy frequencies, called thoughts and light. God operates on His own band of frequencies, called Love and Grace. Just because we are "de-tuned" doesn't mean He isn't with us broadcasting the real "sit rep." [I remember one time on convoy from Plieku to the coast and the whole convoy stopped at this really narrow gap. I hated the place because the French had lost bu coup guys there in the 1950's and you could see the crosses up on the slope. Next thing I know the Quad-50 gun truck is laying down some serious fire into this little swale next to the road. We're all locked and loaded waiting for the wagon master to either get us out of there (seemed like a good idea to me!!!) or start to receive fire so we could return fire. Kind of felt like we were sitting ducks. Then, without any warning, from behind us over our shoulders screamed two fighter-bombers, seemed like about ten feet over our heads! (You see them, you feel the air pressure, THEN you hear them) They layed down some WP. If you had asked me before they got there, "Are you guys alone out here?" I would have said "Yep, pretty bad!" I didn't know it, but the Air Force had already scrambled when the tankers pulling road security had seen the enemy just before our convoy got to the gap. HANG IN THERE! GOD'S AIR FORCE IS SCREAMING TOWARD YOU THROUGH OUR PRAYERS FOR YOU AND YOUR WIFE, YOUR FELLOW POINT MEN, ETC.

3. Christ said to us, the relationship between a husband and a wife is to be a mini-mirror of His ralationship to the Church (e.g. us, the Body of Christ). If our wives see us as servants, not demanders, and givers not takers, their hearts will melt. Washing dishes or helping with the house chrores can speak volumes and help repair the breach.

Love you, bro. Don't give up. If your wife has already given up, serve her, love her without expecting anything in return.

Don Dodson
DodsonOboeVet@NorthernTrail.net

[Pointman69]

Wow! Don, I do have a copy of Chuck's new book. Sometimes it's like reading a foreign language. My wife and I were reading through it a chapter at a time while I'm preparing lessons for our local outpost from the same book. We got to chapter five, and found we could talk easily about how the trauma of Vietnam effected me. Then I had the bright idea since that went well, we should talk about our relationship with the same cander.

I couldn't take it, and words became angry. We were both hurt and haven't gone into the next chapter yet. I felt overwhelming guilt from her expressions of hurt from lack of intimacy for the last 35 years. She can remember details of incidences I've forgotten about long ago. She was right, she was hurt and bitter and I couldn't handle it.

I hope the book gets into how we can discuss our relationship without things blowing up.

Thanks so much for your guidance - I feel I'm way over my head trying to lead others in lessons that are so foreign to me. It's truely the blind leading the blind.

[danausmc]

Wow! Don, I do have a copy of Chuck's new book. Sometimes it's like reading a foreign language. My wife and I were reading through it a chapter at a time while I'm preparing lessons for our local outpost from the same book. We got to chapter five, and found we could talk easily about how the trauma of Vietnam effected me. Then I had the bright idea since that went well, we should talk about our relationship with the same cander.

I couldn't take it, and words became angry. We were both hurt and haven't gone into the next chapter yet. I felt overwhelming guilt from her expressions of hurt from lack of intimacy for the last 35 years. She can remember details of incidences I've forgotten about long ago. She was right, she was hurt and bitter and I couldn't handle it.

I hope the book gets into how we can discuss our relationship without things blowing up.

Thanks so much for your guidance - I feel I'm way over my head trying to lead others in lessons that are so foreign to me. It's truely the blind leading the blind.


But if you are studying before the meeting and stay on your topic, you get the lesson at least twice. Thats the power of the message. The input from the others and the questions explored strengthen and challenge your beliefs and the foundation of you faith.....so you are not the blind ....and if you have to go over it a hundred times to get it....God is faithful and you can be too.

[zeke]

Gonna need a few days for this to sink into this head of mine and get things sorted out. Many questions have been both asked and answered.

[Dean Black]

I have been reading some very powerful heart wrenching thoughts and I realize that we all have suffered from War and home coming. Stick thrower, I am praying for you and everyone in this forum. I have been through a Divorce and it is one of the worst periods in my life. The hurt changed to hatred and almost destroyed my life. I agree with Don, God wants each of us to have a good life. Hes waiting for you to turn it all over to Him; make Him your Point Man.