For those who have been hurt in the "traditional" church.

[ajusmc]

I had to comfort you in some small way...in any least way that I could. I know where you are, and it is oh, so painful. You are oh, so confused and hopeless... "What happened?" "How could they do this to me?" "Why did they pick on me and not someone else?" Why indeed? You only trusted those who were supposed to care for you! They harmed you... the blessed and the chosen of the Lord God. The Holy One of Israel!

He. Will. Repay.

Concerning your pain. I know it. For a time, for you, that pain will color everything that is spiritually related. Be aware of that, in the midst of your healing, so that you do not harm others or else mislead them unnecessarily. It gets so much better, folks! You become strong once you go through it! Much stronger than you could've ever imagined beforehand! I do not lie. I speak the truth in the love that I have for all of those ...my brethren. My brethren are those who love The Lord their God with all of their hearts and all of their souls and all of their minds. My brothers are those who love the children of the Most High God more than they love life itself!

You become strong in the Lord through this great, oh so horrible pain...( I know this pain. It is hard for you. It is so hard...)) for you well and truly learn to rely upon Him for all things.

"...He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul..."

You are the Chosen of the Lord. You will be those to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Be at peace.

I must tell you this one thing: There is no fear in Christ Jesus. He loves you with everything that in Him is, and His Father sent Him to save YOU! How much does God therefore love you! Yes. Even you.

Any who preach a doctrine of fear is of his father the devil. They who do so are false prophets, false teachers, and are themselves doomed to hellfire. You have nothing to fear from even the greatest among them. For even if you are the least among God's chosen, you are greater than these! As a believer, if you go to a church, and you continually leave there *and are* full of great fear and emotional distress, you have met the devil. It is not of God. Stay away from there! for you are at risk of your very soul. As a believer, if you go to church and you see nothing but hypocrisy and lies...you have met the devil. Leave that place immediately. God is not there! If you go to a church and they say "Thus saith the Lord," ...and it does not come to pass...it is not of God. Leave it immediately. If any preach anything that is not in that Book, called the Bible...leave it immediately. You have endangered your very lives! If you go to a church and they judge your very soul, LEAVE IT NOW! There is only One who has authority to judge the souls of men, and His judgement has not yet come!

Christ gave us two Commandments only. Love the Lord God with everything that in you is. ...and love your brothers and sisters in the Lord with all that is in you.

...all else...ALL else will fall into place after that.

I speak healing to you. I speak health to your bones. I speak the Blessings of God into your hearts, minds and lives. May His peace be with you always.

Be healed, child! God loves you immensely.

For God is with you in all things. Who can therefore stand against you?

I am a rough man in the eyes of many who go to those churches that are operated by Satan's minions. I am greater than them all... for God has chosen me! Even me! Above them all! Just as He has chosen you! ...and I am among the most sinful of all men! How much more will you therefore be blessed!

Do not be fooled by the humility of men. It is a false humility given and taught by their father the devil. You have not been given the spirit of fear. In the meekness of God is boldness before men! In the humility of God, there is great strength! There is no weakness or fear to those who are in Christ Jesus! NONE! None at all! He loves you, you see. You have nothing to fear from Him, for you are His and His alone.

You have been given the Spirit of the Holy God of Israel! Rejoice! Dance! Shout with everlasting joy! Sing of your salvation among all men for all time to come! You have nothing to be ashamed of! ...And God is certainly not ashamed of you. He loves you, dear child. He loves you greatly, deeply, and forevermore...You are saved by faith through grace! If they do not preach Christ Jesus and Him crucified...leave that place! for it is cursed of God.

Myself? I would rather burn ****ters forever in heaven than to be a leader in hell. It would be a joy to me.

I would rather sweep floors here on earth, and not be known of any man, and be loved of God, than to wear expensive suits and jewelry and to be known among all men ...and to be loved of men for my piety.

I would rather lead one poor misbegotten man to what is right, than to mislead or frighten the least number of God's children.

I would rather live in a ten by fifty-five trailer while here on earth, and not have anything else or desire anything better, than to live in many mansions at the expense of those whom I was told to take good care of.

I would rather change one life for the better ...and to go hungry, than to take the food from the tables of others ...and then claim that the Lord has blessed me.

I am most certainly willing to die before I betray Him. ...and this He knows well. I just pray for the strength to laugh and shout with joy when that day comes. I'll be going home! I'll be going to be with One Who loves me more than life itself! How good is that? Until that day, Boss...I want one more chance to get a man to think. I want one more chance to visit over a cup of coffee with one more person... One more...and one more...and one more...and to share what I have been given of God... This is my blessing from God...and it is all that I desire. His will to be made manifest in my life. Keep your jewelry. Keep your mansions. Keep your offerings in church. Keep all of that stuff that you drug from the **** hole of hell and damnation. They are anathema to me. They are filth. They are garbage. They stink. I cannot stand the thought of them. I just want to visit with one more person...and one person...and one more after that... Please, God...just one more. I beg of You...this is my heart's desire...I don't want money. I don't want jewelry. I don't want fancy houses. To hell with the respect of men. Their respect can burn. Just one more, dear Father. Please. Just one more...

I am a sojourner in the land, and it's ways are strange to me. My life is in Your mighty hands, Oh, Lord. Do what You will with me...an unworthy vessel.... a broken tool... the least favored among men.

When you come to know Him and His will, your pain will become joy. The very pain that you have and experience now, will be come a joy to you! It is all a part of what He said would happen, and you have been persecuted by His very enemy, the devil himself! You are most blessed among men, I tell you! Be happy! Shout with joy! You have been found worthy to suffer the same, in some small part, as He who came to save you...with His love for you... Dance ! Sing! For the Lord your God is with you!

I have spoken my Blessings upon you already, children of the Most High. Be ye all at peace. Seek God. All else will follow.





Warren "Bones" Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983
Author and E-zine columnist
"Morning Coffee"

[ajusmc]

Bones, as I have traveled around the world, I settled in this area of SC some 16 years ago. My son had gotten himself into a heap of trouble one summer and had deal with DJJ. His "agent" run a church and what his game plan was, was to take these young men and boys to help thier on the grounds. Working with thier hands, planting a garden rasing some rabbits, along those lines. The church itself was not based towords any one religion but towards all being equeal in the eyes of our Lord. We went thier for about 6 months until one Sunday when this "agent" started cutting down other christian beliefs. Walked out of that building that day, to me it wasn't a church anymore. I have never looked back.

[Shawn Powell]

Bones,

Amen and Amen. I wanna fall into your arms, brother....

[chapmick]

Man alive was that a powerful post. From the perspective of a seminary dropout and a former card holding FUBAR member, I riveted on every line of your testimony. Mic

[snowyowl]

For years I wouldn't step inside of a church-however this ministry of Pointman helped me reconnect with other brothers in Christ.

[ajusmc]

Many of us have had trouble with the "traditional" church. Had a Padre when I was with 1/9 in Oki. Told us that as long as our faith is true, being in a building was a secondary thing.

[Don Dodson]

Brothers:
Remember that what we see on street corners and call 'the church' really isn't. The Church, as Christ taught about it, is His Body temporarily left on earth to do His work through our hands, feet and mouths. As the Body of Christ, we can recognize that every existing religious institution, except the Holy Word of God itself, is of human invention. Sometimes well meaning efforts to "fix" an error or doctrine simply creates more grief and hurt feelings.

Be comforted, however, there are gatherings of the Body of Christ that occur, maybe near your location, where the Gospel is preached, lives are changed, and old wounds heal.

WELCOME HOME!

Don "Oboeman" Dodson
DodsonOboeVet@NorthernTrail.net

[Freddo]

Follows my lecture notes on the "Church" that has been helpful to many over the years - most recently in Malawi and Myanmar (Burma) - I hope it helps?:

'WHAT IS THE CHURCH?" Key Tex: Ephesians 15-32

Consider (1) The words describing the church

(2) The words describing Christians

(3) Illustrations describing the Church

(a) Words Describing the Church

Gk: "ecclesia" = "an assembly of called out ones" which is applied to:

(1) Body of Christians in one village, or city - Acts 11:22& 13:1

(2) A congregation - Rom 16:5 (even a church in a house)

(3) All believers on Earth - Eph 5:32

Note: Gk for "church" = "that which belongs to the Lord"!


(b) Words Describing Christians

(1) Brethren - spiritual brotherhood in which all divisions
which separate man are overcome (race, colour, false
religion etc.)

(2) Believers - Because of faith in Jesus

(3) Saints - "consecrated (set apart) or holy ones"
- separated from the world and dedicated to God.

(4) Elect - or the " chosen of God"

(5) Disciples - "learners" who are under spiritual training

(6) Christians - a word that refers to a 'way of life' centred
around Christ

(7) The Way - Acts 9:2 = "to live according to a special way"


(c) Words Describing the Church

(1) BODY OF CHRIST = 1 Jn 4:17 "...as he is so are we in the world"

(2) TEMPLE OF GOD = 1 Pet 2: 5-6

(3) BRIDE OF CHRIST = Eph 5: 25-27 the 'symbol' is to illuminate
the truth and not to go overboard!

(d) Membership - in the early church, ALL were saved (Note 2 Tim 2:19-21)

by:

(1) Faith in Christ

(2) Baptism in Water



(e) Church Meetings

There were two (2) types: (1) Church Meeting for all
(2) Apostolic Meeting for leaders

Must understand difference between
(a) Church and (b) Apostolic Work

(a) CHURCH - the people (ROM 12:5) mutually sharing (1 Cor 14:26)

(b) WORK - involved believers (1 Cor 14:23, 26-33) & unbelievers
(Acts 2:14, 3:11, 10 - Cornelius



(f) Purpose of the Meeting

Hebrews 10:24-25 - ALL have a responsibility to incite (stir up) 'one
another' - NOT one man only!

To: (1) Prayer (2) Reading of Scripture (3) Communion
(4) Study of Word (6) Exercise of Spiritual Gifts


(g) MAIN POINT - We all know the attitude of many towards the Church today!

People who only want to go to apostolic meetings (itinerant preachers perhaps?) have not really been to church!
People who only go on Sunday out of duty/guilt = passive, lazy, selfish, unspiritual, and become overly critical
People who only go to Church to be seen/business = active, super-spiritual, but can be overly critical!
Note: Their spirituality may seem good here and now, but the true measure of a church is HOW MANY ATTEND AND BELONG TO THE CHURCH AND NOT THE WORK!!

Today: People are content to be ministered to by the gifts of a worker - instead of seeking their own gifts and to exercise them for the good of the whole!

Note to Leaders: "Office" is for 'government' but "Gifts" are for 'ministry'!

Conclusion - Ministry - Work - Church

(1) It is God who establishes a church - not man!

(2) It is God who raises up the ministry - the Holy
Spirit anoints, man appoints ('see' the anointing
at work and appoint the anointed!)

(3) It is God who sends ministry out

(4) It is God who establishes another church - not a
man who is disgruntled or ambitious

Therefore, to be in Divine Order and have the Blessings of God, on the church and its people you must ask the Lord to:

(1) Give you a revelation of the Church as the Body - united and not divided

(2) Understand that the 'work' of the Church is "the Body outreaching to
the lost"

(3) Know that 'ministry' is the function of the Body!


---
Blessings all!
Freddo

[Shawn Powell]

Freddo,

Please explain further "(g) Note: Their spirituality may seem good here and now, but the true measure of a church is HOW MANY ATTEND AND BELONG TO THE CHURCH AND NOT THE WORK."

Jesus called the pharisees "Whited sepulchres filled with dead men's bones...." Is that what you mean? Would I be right in saying "quality over quantity?"

What say you, my fine Aussie Warrior?

Shawn.

[Freddo]

G'day Shawn!
Sorry, I didn't make that one too clear did I? What I was trying to say was similar to what you said about "quality and quantity". In many churches today there are "many" who attend a church and say that they "belong" - even holding membership to it perhaps? but at the same time do nothing to participate in the "work" or ministry of the church! I'm not a "Spiritual Policeman", but I have visited numersous churches over the years as a guest speaker and quite often have quite innocently asked people in the course of general conversation, who have said to me that they have been long-term members of the church, or even just said that they've been Christians for many years, "So, where do you fit into the ministry (or what gifting do you exercise in the church)?" and it has been amazing how embarrassed many become, or say something like, "I contribute to the street kids work", or, "I just help out whenever I can"! I don't know about those who are reading this, but I believe that I personally would want to be in fellowship with a group of people who love, accept, forgive and disciple others to the the point where they can identify their place (by knowing what they've been called to be - notice in the early part of 1st Corinthians how many times Paul speaks of one's "calling"!) in the Body of Christ and to then be released to be about doing ("the work") the King's Business of encouraging, ministering to and stirring up people to love and fine works! (See Heb 10:24-25) Perhaps the following says it better than I can?
A Parable of Fisherless Fishermen

NOW it came to pass that a group existed who called themselves fishermen. There were many fish in the waters all around. In fact, the whole area was surrounded by streams and lakes filled with fish. The fish were very hungry. Year after year these who called themselves fishermen met in meet1ngs and talked about their call to fish, the abundance of fish and how they might go about fishing.

Continually they searched for new and better methods of fishing. They sponsored costly nationwide and worldwide conventions to discuss fishing, to promote fishing and to hear all the ways of fishing. They built large, beautiful buildings called ‘Fishing Headquarters.’ The plea was that everyone should be a fisherman and every fisherman should fish. One thing they didn’t do however, they didn’t fish.

They organized a board to send out fishermen to other places where there were even more fish. The board was formed by those who had the great vision and courage to speak about fishing, to define fishing and to promote the idea of fishing in faraway streams and lakes where many other fish, of different colours lived. The board hired staff and appointed committees and held many meetings to define fishing, to defend fishing and to decide what new streams should be thought about. But all the staff and committee members did not fish.

Expensive training centres were built to teach fisherman how to fish. Those who taught had taught had many degrees in fishology. But even the teachers did not fish - they only taught fishing. Year after year, graduates were sent by the board to do full time fishing, some even to the distant streams.

Further, the fishermen built large printing houses to publish numerous fishing guides. A speaker's agency was also setup to schedule special speakers on the subject of fishing. Many who felt the call to be fishermen responded and were sent to fish; but like the fishermen back home they never ever fished.

Many said they wanted to be part of the outreach fishing parties, but never went. They said they felt called only to furnish fishing equipment. Others felt their job was to relate to the fish in a good way so the fish would know the difference between good and bad fishermen. After one stirring meeting on “The Necessity for Fishing," a young man left the meeting and went fishing. The next day he reported he had caught two outstanding fish. He was honoured for his excellent catch and scheduled to visit all the big meetings possible to tell how he did it. So he quit his fishing in order to have time to tell the other fishermen about his experience. He was also placed on the World Fishermen's General Board as a person who now had considerable fishing experience.

Now it's true that many of the fishermen sacrificed a lot and put up with all kinds of difficulties. Some lived near the water and even put up with the smell of dead fish every day. They wore the ridicule and scorn of those who made fun of their fishermen's clubs and the fact that they claimed to be fishermen but never fished.

They wondered about those who could fish who felt is was of little use to attend the weekly meetings to talk about and learn about methods of fishing. After all, were they not following the Master Fisherman who said, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men?"

Imagine how hurt some were, when one day a person suggested that those who didn't catch fish were really not fishermen, no matter how much they claimed to be fishermen. Yet what they said did sound correct?

A question? Is a person a fisherman if year after year, year in and year out, he never catches a ‘fish’?

[Shawn Powell]

Freddo-

Roger, good post... what do you think of this, though...

Can we lump the fishermen in the above parable to the process of what Paul describes as some ..."planting, others watering, and still others reaping the harvest...?"

Fishermen absent from any of the above particulars are not really fishermen... does that make sense?

God Bless.

[Freddo]

G'day Shawn!
I live on the water and do not fish off our jetty - and none of the locals ever fish in the river! Why, because we know from expereince that you can't catch fish of any significance here. However, it's interesting that on weekends and school vacations there are literally hundreds of people who come from elsewhere who trying unsuccessfully, from every "vantage" point to catch fish in the very waters that we locals don't even think about! Local bait and tackle shops (who advise and sell all the gear imaginable to catch every sort of fish possible), media reports etc., all say that certain fish are being caught here, or there (but seem to always add, "go and try your luck"!); local stores sell books on how to fish in this region - again, the locals don't even bother!
Why? Because simply have "broken free" from all the above and for themselves have figured out where, when and what to fish with and for. So too with those who know they have the reponsibility of evangelising the lost -they follow the leading of their Master - convinced in themselves that they are obedient to His Lordship and personal leading/calling - and head off to be real "fishers of men" as directed by him. As to one planting, another watering etc., I have a younger brother in ministry who is visiting with us at the moment. He told me an interesting story last night. Over thirty years ago a couple were led of the Lord to go to Indonesia and in a short time began a small church that began had an impact in one village. The Muslims opposed what they were doing and after a short battle had the couple deported. They just had to leave the people to fend for themselves. Left in their little church was the logo of their "Western" denomination. No continued contact with the group was possible and they simply "disappeared" off the screen. Thirty years later a small group was again led to go to Indonesia and in their travels they were surprised to see their denominational logo in a church in which they were invited to minister hanging on the wall? Asking why they were using their logo, they were surprised to find that the original little church, that had been long forgotten from 30 years back, had become an organised group of over 5,000 churches scattered throughout the country - and nobody in the west knew a thing about them!
I guess what that says is that God is building His Church and always uses those who are open to go "fishing" His Way and to do the "work" in His Time!
Yours and His,
Freddo

[Shawn Powell]

Freddo,

I get it... good post.
One more question... what is "Fair Dinkum?" Please educate this Yank.

Shawn.

[Freddo]

Well whadya know, stone the crows, Shawn's one of them bloomin fair dinkum Tin Tanks!

First Lesson: we Aussies read the above as meaning, "Well goodness me, what a surprise! Shawn is someone that has character and can be depended on just like a member of the family, and he comes of the US"

Lesson Two: OK, ready? "The rain in Spain falls mainly...." <BG>

Seriously, to say someone is "Fair Dinkum" is the best compliment you can pay to another who is an honest, reliable, fair, trustworthy, truthful, dependable, always there when you need him type of bloke (guy) who will stick with you through thick and thin! It can also mean that an object (like a watch etc) is the genuine article, or the real thing and not a fake.

To say "Stone the crows" about something or a situation menas that something great or extraordinary/impossible has taken place? Our crows here are very cunning birds and to try and hit one by throwing a stone at it is an impossibility! Their eyesight is so sharp that they can even dodge bullets - I know because I tried to shoot them with a .22 when I was a teenager (they used to pick the eyes of our lambs and any sheep that had fallen down through sickness or heavy wet wool and could not get up!
Got the drum?
Ta ta for now, I'm shootin' through like a Bondi tram!
Freddo

[Shawn Powell]

Right then Guv... love a duck!

Fer Shizzle.

Shawn.