PTSD : Anger

[ajusmc]

I have been contacted a few times in the past about the different things concerning PTSD and dealing with it. One of the main topics should be that of anger. I have opened this thread so that folks can talk about or read about this aspect. God Bless

[Dean Black]

I don't know about others but I have always had an Anger control problem and I was hurting everyone around me for the longest time. I went to the Vet Center In Charlotte, NC. I talked with the Director and she told me that what I was feeling was normal for a Veteran and she advised me to go through the counseling and I agreed. This is a 3 phase treatment and each Veteran is encouraged to participate. Each phase lasts 8-10 weeks and anyone could go back and start over. I made it through and enjoyed the fellowship very much. Was I cured, "Not" I still get mad and I get frusrated to the point that I sometimes get the urge to smash everything around me. When this happens I call my accountability partner and I use him as a sounding board as he does me, and when he's not available I request prayer and I pray also. I know that I need all the prayer I can get because prayer is the most poweful weapon we have. And it's always worked for me.

[Reconvic]

I have been contacted a few times in the past about the different things concerning PTSD and dealing with it. One of the main topics should be that of anger. I have opened this thread so that folks can talk about or read about this aspect. God Bless


AJ , only the Lord knows I wish I had a long fuse instaead of a short one. I also went thru anger management courses but I still get upset to easy. It is a fault I am working on and since it took along time to get that way I guess it will take a long time to become easy going. With the help in the Lord he will guide me.
Semper Fi Vic

[Trooper]

Vic & Dean

I know what your going thru, not to many years ago I was holding a guy by the neck wondering why people were saying that I shouldn't kill him. I guess I'll alwase have the feelings, unless I numb myself which I choose not to do anymore.

The thing that keeps me out of trouble is remembering the scripture, Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

[ajusmc]

Many times I have been accused of being to laid back, but the anger has a hair trigger on it. Little things can tick me off in a heartbeat. I will admit that since the making of this site, thier has been more control over it.

[steve]

one day aj i was beating a guy through his car window.....and i looked around.....no cops. i thought, what am i doing in the middle of the road acting like that?...so i went home. the whole time i was saying to myself, you need to get a grip, you need to get a grip....all the way home. know what AJ? i did....simple as that...its all choices, like any other aspect of our lives. if you hit me in the face, people might say , steve instantly hit him back....nope.....no matter how fast it all happened, i made a choice.
at times its not easy, but i believe it was a habit...i just needed a starting point to get out of the habit. well its gone. people say i have really changed....i like that...i didnt ever LIKE people being afraid of me...it made me very uncomfortable....i still have a gun on me at all times....no brag, just fact, its there more for the way ive treated guys in the past, than for what might happen today....but we reap what we sow....i never know when one of these guys ive bullied in the past , might walk up tp make things right...i do belive in being prepared.....but its all for old stuff...i love people , and i CHOSE to START acting like it. anyway, it worked...i just stopped.

[Dean Black]

I have found that all Combat Veterans have certain things which triggers anger and if I fail to recoginize it I start to get agitated, this used to cause all kinds of problems. I too have a short fuse and I have been in jail quite a bit. Now I pray Gods full armour down on me and I start my attitude of gratitude all over again and I make it through another day.
Dean.

[Trooper]

Steve

I never had a problem with Guns, although I hunted all my life. My problem was Knives. I justifyed carring a knife by saying I grew up on a farm where everyone carried a pocket knife. Then I finally had to admit that a 14 inch knife on my belt wasn't a pocket knife. I've been without any kind of knife on me for two years now, and I still get the urge to carry one, just incase.

[ajusmc]

the hardest thing to this point is sudden movement by someone walking up behind me, boss said something one day, before I knew it I was checking up on a fist going for his neck. Someone will drop a skid on thte deck, most of the time I can handle it, but every once in awhile I looking around the corner of the machine from a prone poistion. Little things still get me.

[Trooper]

AJ

The hyper-alertness you refer to is one of the reasons I work Psych. I got it, why not use it. What the enemy ment for harm, God uses for the good.

[steve]

i really dont concider having a pistol on me is a problem. actually i think it helps my anger problem. im not a stupid person, so i realize that if i use this gun , i will end up in jail. that just gives me incentive to be the most mellow , low key person in the place. BUT, i will NOT be a victim.....if im out fishin and two drunk red necks decide they would like to get thier kicks by beatin a long haired dude half to death, well , i guess they picked the wrong guy. if they decide to come in a resturant and shoot everyone cause of a bad day, well wrong resturant. there will be no shooting , and then reloading to continue, oh no. i will get down like everyone else, like i said , im not stupid, but when they pause, when they give me the chance, that little shooting spree will be over. i think its only common sense to carry a gun now days, or a 14 inch knife. nowhere in the word does god tell us to be a victim. i am to love you , as i love myself.
i was talking to three cops one night at a resturant , i had overheard them talking about this very thing. i said that i agree. they shot me, no im kidding, actually what one said was.....he would rather 12 of his peers try him , than 6 of his friends carry him. by the way , yes i had a gun ...ha....it just reminds me to never be the trouble maker......it is very possible to have a 9mm under your arm , and still love , and serve god......just my opinion

[Shawn Powell]

Mornin Boys,

I was at a photo shop a few weeks back, checking out some pictures of Josh (my second oldest) from his senior year in football. Well this guy, apparently he was a business owner in one of the neighboring shops in this strip mall, storms into the photo shop and starts yelling at the manager, "I need to know if anyone here owns a red dodge pick-up...."
I looked up from the computer terminal and said "That would be me."
He glared at me and yelled "You need to move it! It's in my space!"
Well, I felt kind of a charge because this guy was a forty-something yuppie-bitch with an attitude and I replied calmly "Oh. I'm sorry... are you okay?"
I think he could kind of sense my casual sarcasm and he continued by pointing a finger at me and saying, "Oh I'll be just great once you move it... nice parking job by the way!"
Well I jumped up from my seat and strided toward him, he simultaneously turned and huffed out the front door. When we were both outside I stated that he should package what he wants to day a little differently so as to avoid future awkward situations... he responded by saying, "F*** YOU, PAL!"
That's when my more Christ-like side kicked in and I said "Come here... you wanna talk about this?" I gestured to an isolated space in the parking area. "Let's talk about this, a**hole!" Then I blessed him with explaining the steps involved in ripping one's head off and utilizing their neck cavity as a latrine.
He scurried off to the safety of his little shop and I in turn moved my truck to a different space... only to return to his shop and stalk the front of his business, hoping for another opportunity to link up with him.

Same, same....

[Don Dodson]

Bro's:

Reading all of your posts strikes a cord with me, too. My anger was rooted in the rage that so many could die for so little, e.g. over 58,000 in Vietnam. I blamed LBJ, MacNamara, Ho Chi Mihn, the guy who blew up Lemley, etc. Then one Sunday in 1997 (or so) the pastor was teaching from the Disciples' Prayer, often called the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9 and follwoing. I had mumbled that prayer since I was 7 years old! He spent the entire sermon on 6:12 "And forgive us our debts/tresspasses AS WE forgive our debtors/those who have tresspassed against us." Another translation says "Keep us forgiven with You and forgiving others." (The Message).

I literally felt like I was being electrocuted in my chest. I began to weep right there in the church pew. My loving wife recognized God was doing surgery on my mind and in that exact moment I conciously named Lyndon Johnson, "Wiz kid" MacNamara, General Westmoreland, Ho Chi Minh, the guy that blew up Lemley, every boss I had had problems with, etc. etc. If I do not forgive them, AND KEEP ON FORGIVING THEM, then how do I expect God to forgive me? Jesus knew that if we carry around a ruck sack full of hate and rage, we will act hateful and raging.

Did that instantly heal me? Sad to say, no. I'm still a tad on the hair trigger side. But it began a great journey of healing that has led me to start up a Point Man Outpost in La Mesa! Will I trip-up and fall on my face with anger, again? Count on it! But I know who God is, and I know His promises that when I swallow hard, apologize, smile and put my care in HIS hands, not the adversary's hands, I will experience the "peace that passes understanding." (John 14:27).

(By the way, I have been richly blessed by some Vietnamese-Americans who thank us and appreciate what we tried to do, and helped me realize that the 58,000 + who died in Vietnam were not deaths in vain. They accomplished a great deal in preventing another attack in Korea (so far), keeping Soviet troops out of South America, and generally convincing the enemies of the US that they could not win man-for-man, battle-for-battle. Only through the slimey media and the weak politicians could they beat the American military.)

Lord, may we see the errors of others not as attacks to be fought back against, but opportunities to step back, tune in to Your Will for our lives, and surrender to your Holy Spirit, Who is with us as your Gift to us. May the fruit of Your Spririt, self-control, continue to grow in our lives. Father, bless these men who are struggling with anger and guard them from Satan's wish that they be weakened in their witness for you. Amen (thinking of Paul's discussion of the Fruits of the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5:22 - 26, especially 5:23)

Good night! Your brother in Christ,

Don "Oboeman" Dodson
DodsonOboeVet@NorthernTrail.net

[snowyowl]

Steve I picked up this quote over at 1911forum.com.
"You can afford to have a temper or you can afford to have a gun. You can't afford to have both."
My past haunts me and I'll be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life because I've tried to live according to God's principles and skewered the "opposition" in the process. :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: Sinh Loi!!!! And NO APOLOGIES. And yes I carry a gun because of it.
Guys a great Christ-based Warrior website is http://www.warriortalk.com. This not militia or that ilk. Rather soldiers, police, citizens, and the like who love Christ and are not sheeple-types.

[Phantomblooper]

Two Wolves


An old Indian Grandfather said to his grandson who came to him with
anger at a friend who had done him an injustice........


"Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt a great hate for
those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do.



But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy.


It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die.


I have struggled with these feelings many times."

He continued......

"It is as if there are two wolves inside me;


One is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way.He saves all his energy for the right fight.

But the other wolf, ahhh!

He is full of anger. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper.

He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason.

He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing.

Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."

The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes and asked...


"Which one wins, Grandfather?"

The Grandfather smiled and quietly said......

"The one I feed."


Indian Author Unknown

[Pointman69]

A friend and I were discussing the hair triggers both of us have which result in disproportionate anger for a given situation.

For me, the stress of confrontation or conflict throws me back to my old survival skills of raising enough adrenaline quickly to overcome the preceived opponant. In my mind, it goes back to win or loose, kill or be killed. It seems extreme, but that's what we learned to survive a year of stress and trauma.

Anger and fear are the two mechanisams I used to pump up enough adrenaline to become powerful enough to meet the situation with immediate, overwhelming force. Overwhelming power is totally appropriate when facing muzzle flashes of an AK, but it's "overkill" in our current situations. It scares embarrasses people around us. It can easily lead to the physical level of survival if an angry outburst doesn't silence the opposition. Can you imagine what this does to a marriage or close relationship?

The consequences for us and our "opponant" can be disastorous. It may be that a lot of our veterans have been incarcerated when combat survival skills were allowed to go too far.

I've heard that vets treat a threat to our ego the same as a threat to our lives. It may have something to do with how fragle and vulnerable we feel after Vietnam. Protecting ourselves becomes all important.

What level of power do we need? Solutions to conflicts don't have to be viewed as win at all costs, kill or be killed. We can learn to negotiate solutions with those close to us. We can decide to not pump up our adrenaline and walk away or try a lower level skill to resolve conflicts.

I'm just learning, can't say this will work for anyone else. I feel better about myself knowing there are other skills I can learn that might save me from the embarrassment, guilt, and depression from over-reacting.

[Stickthrower]

Pointman69,
You make a good point about letting anger and fear pump us up to a kill or be killed level, and mostly at inappropriate times. I have "blown" up over some trivial incidents both at work or home. At the time they didn't seem trivial to me.

Being ex-law enforcement( 26 years) sometimes the results were less than satisfactory. Fellow officers used to p__s me off for not responding fast enough to a officer safety issue, disarming a person with necessary force, etc. I used to believe I had a tremendous amount of self control and could respond properly weather in a fire fight in the jungle or a fight for your life situation on the street. I now know that I was not in control, just lucky that I didn't kill someone for the wrong reason. Thank God that I am off the street!

I still have major problems with anger, but each time I deal with a situation in an effective & appropriate manner I feel better and that makes me keep trying to learn new tools for dealing with the anger.

As for dealing with the fear, that is another story. I'm still hyper vigilant to the maximum level. The fight or flight mentality is hard to resist. People dont't understand why or how we can get so aggressive over what to them is a trivial matter. Such as pulling in front of you so close you end up going in the ditch to avoid a collision! That puts me in the "I'm gonna kill somebody mode" when I have my family with me. Any time I have a percieved threat towards my family I tend to revert to survival tactics.

I have just realized how much I have scared my family & friends when I was put in a confrontational environment. It has put a real strain on my marriage for sure. I do not know why sometimes my wife has put up with me for 13 years.

It is very hard for me sometimes to deal with a confrontation on a "reasonable" level, but I try to daily. Prayer has helped tremendously in my case. Every day I strive to read one book of the Bible in an attempt to change my life. There is an old saying "What would Jesus do?" I have tried to turn that around for myself into "How would Jesus react or act in this situation". Believe me it is hard!! But at least I am making progress in controlling my anger and thinking things through before I react.

In closing I would like to add that having faith in the Lord and letting Him control my life was the most difficult choice I have ever made, but it has brought me the most peace I have ever known!

Brothers forever!

[Pointman69]

Stickthrower - you're right on. God is changing us, and it is difficult to believe that He doing the work, it's all about Him. Because of who I am, I have to stop trying to crank up my will to do what's right. We battle not against flesh and bone, but against principalities and powers. I get burned out fighting my flesh with my flesh.

In fact, I try not to focus my energy directly on the things I want to change. Chuck said it in his recent book - It's kind of like "night vision." I can see better by not looking at something directly, but looking slightly to one side or above the object.

If I can focus on discovering who I already am in Jesus, then the pressure is off me and all I have to learn is to trust and rest in His plan for me. What He wants, He will enable me to do in His perfect timing (never early or late). I can do all things in Christ - I can do nothing righteous in my strenght or understanding. It's a life and relationship He created us for.

[Don Dodson]

Great thoughts men! It is a blessing and encouragement to me reading your sharing. Thanks!

Don "Oboeman" Dodson

[Stickthrower]

Anger? Sometimes I find I am angry and don't know the reason why I feel this way. That is the hard part for me, because then I started feeling depressed again. I guess that is just part of the PTSD kicking back in. Then I don't want to pick up the Bible because I feel I have failed the Lord again and don't want to come crying back to him for help.

But, I know my God will not fail me, only I fail him a lot! I try all my steps to keep on track and still they let me down. I just wish I could discover the reason for my anger and put it to rest.

Even on days when everything seems to be going well I can still feel the anger lurking in the recesses of my mind.

Here lately I have been putting a lot of work into getting an outpost started here in Ellensburg Wa and that has kept me pretty occupied. Everything is starting to fall in place finally. I got to meet with Bob Silveria on 3/11/05 for a few minutes. Our first meeting is planned for 4/6/05 here in town. I am sure looking forward to it!

I would appreciate any input as to helping me get the wrd out to any local Vets and get them to our meeting. I would really like any input on how to keep focused on my anger control.

God Bless.

[ajusmc]

Stickthrower, check with your local radio and newspapers. Many offer public service announcements at no charge.

[Pointman69]

Point Man has a video you might use in local churches or bible studies that will let members (including vets) know an outpost is starting up. A testimony or two is an effective addition to the video tape. Ask local radio stations for a "Public Service Announcement" inviting vets to learn God's view of the Vietnam War and His promise to bring each of us through those times that horror and trauma produce.

Anger is a perfect example. It's an absolutely normal reaction for what we've been through. Our worst side was exposed, the War wasn't fair to us. We saw and did things we wouldn't have done if not in that violent, confusing, frustrating, terrifying, (fill in the blank), war. We weren't prepared for it; we weren't warned about the emotional consequences; for years, the VA told us there was no proof of a connetion between Vietnam and our long term problems. We had to push the VA to recognize the connection. Our friends and family think we should "just get over it." Humanity sucks for allowing Vietnam to go as far as it did, there was too much money to be made, too much political power to let go of, too many egoes making decisions for those of us who could only fight and die, or go to jail.

There are any number of real reasons why we feel angry. Eliminating reasons one-by-one can not be accomplished in our lifetime within the confines of our understanding. So we are stuck with unending, unresolved anger, or there's another way than believing there are answers we must understand before giving up our anger.

You see the delema. We're not built to see all the answers, we don't even see the questions in their true context. There's only one who can, He sees the beginning from the end. He sees the right answers to all our questions. He may reveal some or all to us, but knowing He knows, and He will turn all things for our good because we love Him and are called according to His purposes is enough. Anything more is just His mercy and grace for us.

His promises are not conditional once we accept Chrst. He knows exactly when and how many times we have to be presented with the decision to trust in His knowledge or trust in our own, before we finally turn from doing it our way. He has given us the free choice to decide, but He will persist until our habis and our old nature die away.

He will be faithful until they do, just as He was with His chosen people in the wilderness. They physically died because of their hard hearts and unbelief. The new generation got to go into the promised land, not because they were without sin, but because of God's grace and because of His promise to them.

There is always a spiritual parallel to Old Testiment stories - when we believe Jesus paid the price for our unbelief, we are born again and can now walk in the land of His promises. His word says, "old things are passed away, behold all things have become new." It's already happened, we're just learning to trust his promise enough to walk in it.

All of His promises are for us, we were grafted into the vine (Jesus) and God can not lie. Everything He says comes true! The world was created by His word. So were we, born into the world (and the World's understanding), tben born again in the spirit (and God's understanding). He also promises to continue His work in us until the day Jesus returns. He will never allow us to be destroyed, He will keep us in the palm of His hand.

Remember, Jesus did not come into this world to condemn us but to set us free, and who He sets free, is free indeed. Don't argue with God. None of us deserve it, it's a product of His grace and mercy. He doesn't want us to take any credit for doing what only He can do. He wants a humble heart, willing to turn and follow Him when we make all our mistakes. He doesn't count the mistakes - He forgets them when we ask forgiveness. Our flesh and understanding die when we turn to Him who we can't see. Our faith grows as we begin to trust there is a reality beyond our understanding. In that reality, good really does overcome evil, belief conqures fear and produces courage, and love drives out anger.

By the way - I still jump immediately to anger under some stressors. My flesh is tensed to a near breaking point, then I'm embarrased, dissapointed, overwhelmed and discouraged. I really don't want to drop into those deep, never-ending depressions again.

All I can do is reach out desperately for help. If that means swallowing my pride, facing God (who loves me unconditionally) and tell Him I blew it again, ask forgiveness, then believe He turns all things around, well, that's what I have to do. He's even using my anger to clean my heart and draw me closer to Him. Can you believe it?

[Stickthrower]

Thanks Pointman69,

I was feeling lower than whale s___ & needed to vent to someone who understands. Your point is well taken about asking for forgiveness from Him and to just keep on trying.

Isn't He wonderful!

[Pointman69]

He will even use our anger to push us closer to Him. He will turn all things for our good, not because we deserve it, but because He promised and because He already sees us at the end of the work He's doing in us. Take hope with you today.

[buckshot]

I seem to be on the edge of 7 or 8 much of the time regarding fuse length. it is always lit and smoldering. With our present political situation and "lords" we "serve" as serfs, 7 goes to 10 in a split second. perhaps this is a "righteous" sort of anger though I know any righteousness is as fithy rags.

[danausmc]

I seem to be on the edge of 7 or 8 much of the time regarding fuse length. it is always lit and smoldering. With our present political situation and "lords" we "serve" as serfs, 7 goes to 10 in a split second. perhaps this is a "righteous" sort of anger though I know any righteousness is as fithy rags.
It very well could be. many of the vets that come to our meetings here are on a very short fuse and need some decompression time just to sort things out.

[buckshot]

With this ptsd it seems it will always be around. 42 years of decompression is not impossible I guess and HE allows me to still be His.:dog: