Qualifications??

[danausmc]

This is a new thread, prompted by the 122 views in the Homefront thread of the following post over a two day period.

What is actually a post by one of our members detailing her life and her qualifications to participate in this discussion, can also be intrepreted in many ways.

I will try to get the posts in context, so that the tone is not lost, and also keep them in the Homefront area.

If you join in on this discussion, please post here.

Remember we are here to help each other. In another post, someone said it is very hard to convey what we want because if you dwell even on one syllable, the meaning changes. So watch out for personal shots.
Dont take any.

I will move the posts and responses now.

Dana

[danausmc]

I have been thinking about this comment and prefered to take it as a joke. See

but not trying to start anything but I do have to make a comment of my own. I will "blow my own horn" so to speak and give you a run down of qualifications needed to be considered...in my view.

1. Must have been in a war zone during a war, preferably in a foreign country.
2. Must have a hands on knowledge of death and dying, preferably by ones own hands.
3. Must have been in the military or deeply associated with the military for at least 5 years, preferably 18 yrs. or more.
4. Must have been denied the grieving process and forced to "carry on" and have developed the "it don't mean nuthin" syndrome deep in ones psychie.
5. Must have deep and thorough knowledge of PTSD preferably be afflicted by same as diagnosed by at least 2 or more physicians. PTSD must have been in exsistence before meeting spouse or brother, etc. after active duty and experiencing theirs.
6. Must have physical "war wounds" as well as psychological wounds, the latter caused both by war, negative experiences and/or spouse.
7. Must be able to PROVE all of the above and much more there isn't space for here.
8. May also be found to be 100% disabled with PTSD being the complete factor for the disability.
9. Must have 5 to 10 years experience helping others with like symptoms and/or problems.
10. And most important........MUST REALLY CARE and have Jesus as the Master Councilor.

Now we all know not many will fill these requirements "as I can and can prove every word" so which of these is most important to be qualified here? Number 10.........of course.

You and your family are loved and not just by God....but by myself, my hubby and all those who walk here.

In sincerity and truth, in the family of the church, cj

[danausmc]

Trooper
Member

Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 67
Qualifying


CHECK FIRE (that's an artillery way of saying stop shooting!)

All I meant by saying I wasn't qualified for "girl Takl" was I'm not FEMALE.

As far as my time in service goes, 6 years US Army(two tours in Nam with F-troop 2/11th Armored Cav.), 2 years NY National Guard (8" Artillery), 2 years CA National Guard (Infantry).

I served as an Outpost Leader back when Chuck Dean was incharge. And the only reason I'm not active more with Pointman is time constraints. I'm a full-time Pastor with a drug and alcohol program and a full-time Psych Nurse.

My PTSD isn't 100%, in fact the VA says i didn't get it from the military.

But they also say theirs no cure, They don't know my GOD!

As far as my wife writting, she's shy around peoplke she doesn't know, but GOD is working on her.

I love and Respect any women that will put up with us Vets!

Like I said earlyer, I'm praying for more WOMEN for you to talk with.

Trooper has attached this image:


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[danausmc]

So far so good, a misunderstanding and easily cleared up.

the response:

OOOooops!!
Trooper: See....I have PTSD too. And if I spoke too strongly, I apologize. It is very difficult to really understand what a person really is saying sometimes in writing. A little leaning on the wrong syllahbal and it is taken a whole new way. So if I mistook what you were joking about, I apologize. If I didn't...I guess it stands. But I don't want to make enemies. This is a forum to speak ones mind. I really believe that. And the biggest difficulty I have when speaking mine and what I have been through, is that it tends to shy people away. I'm just a simple lady who loves her Vet and has a bunch of grandbabies and hope people will remember that. And has full blown PTSD that overrides my common sense and stirs the anger pot now and again. So I thought I should clarify myself after reading those words we can never take back. Stay well. cj

cj has attached this image:


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[danausmc]

Carole, after thinking about the guidelines that you posted the other day, a question has come to mind.

What I understand is that it leaves out all the people that have been directly effected by 9-11, these are innocent people that had war brought to thier front door and have suffered with the memories of what they went thru. Plus this leaves out people that have been in situations that have been part of in some sort of operation. The best example of that would be the Muiltinational Peacekeeping Force in Oct 1983. It leaves out any of the Marines and Corpsman that dug thru the barrracks in Beruit, where 243 died. Are they to be denied the facts of what is burned into the minds and suffer? It also leaves out vets that may have only been "in country" for a short period of time, that got hit and medivac home, never to return to a combat zone.

I know thier are countless other examples that I could use, but I also know that I don't feel as though I am quilified to say who is or isn't within the guidelines for PTSD. Maybe with this post that I'm making here, others will post with thier questions and concerns that they may have.

Last thought, I agree 110% on point 10.
~AJ~


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[danausmc]

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Guess I got your attention, hey? Let me reassure you that those ten points weren't meant for others. They were an answer given concerning ONLY myself and MY OWN experiences and what my qualifications were diagnosed at to be 100% disabled with PTSD. That answer given in a burst of (imagine that), PTSD Anger aimed at what in my fog, I perceived as an attack on women's qualifications. (I think that is what got my kettle boiling). At this point, I am not totally sure what actually set me off, just thinking that maybe that was it. If you read the posts previous to this in that light, you will see that this took place basically between me and Trooper and that is all O.K. now. No more shots fired and so on. So never fear, it wasn't at anyone who is most certainly qualified for many reasons.

I sense that many of us here are carrying sensitive areas in our concious and subconsious (how do you spell that?) minds and in our hearts and we all, myself included, need to back up, take three deep breaths and leave it alone until we are better able to see the whole picture. I am well aware that PTS affects much of our population in various ways and forms. My oldest son was "never in the military" and he has classic PTSD. From abuse, a life of turmoil and fear and many other things, all from his father and the beatings he received and verbal abuses degrading him terribly. He has been at various times, suicidal, homocidal in his anger, has a built in death wish, runs on adrenalyn, is an alcoholic and does drugs and has had a heart attack already. He was born in 1965 and is unable to find a place for himself in life. He is the one I have requested prayer for. His PTSD is there and strong and he says"He doesn't do Jesus." He hasn't spoken to me in almost 4 years. I NEVER meant to say that others in many walks of life can't qualify for PTSD. I felt personally affronted and reacted in typical anger fashion and let my mouth overload what brain I thought I had.

Sorry..if I offended you too. Are there any more who are offended? Now is the time to jump in if you have a mind to do so. I am here and ready to take my punishment! I do request that anyone that wants to jump in here reads all the posts in context and doesn't just single out one angry burst and assume it means something it doesn't. At least I would hope that that is what you out there would do. However...........

Your response, AJ, surprised me. You really don't have to get on the defensive with me, you know. This was all understood and settled by myself and Trooper before anyone else came along. Jesus is Saviour to us all and I think it is time to put these responses and thoughts to Him in prayer and cease fire! If people are reading these posts here, and misunderstanding what was going on when they were made, perhaps we all need to count to ten. Not only me! cj

[danausmc]

Anyone can see that there are many dynamics at work here and the key one is anger. A couple guys have e-mailed and think we should move on to another topic besides anger. The post previous to this one clearly points out some areas we all need to look at and one is dont let your battleship mouth overcome your rowboat brain. I have posted many times in anger and it aint pretty. Need to take a long look and see what the other is trying to say.

Until I realized that Cj was talking about herself, I too, was really ticked about her "qualifications". We need to carefully read each post in its context. This aint your usual forum where its all jokes and nasty pictures.

So my new tactic for myself is to step back, think about the post and then ask a question or three and see what happens.
happysmile

[danausmc]

Many PM meetings attract "wannabees" and you all know what they are.

One hallmark of the "wannabee" is a laundry list of qualifications. MAC V SOG, Special forces, six tour S.E.A.L.
you name it, MOH recipient, a couple Silver Stars, Navy Cross, or DSC....POW, any one of a hundred different stories.

Even though Cj was talking about herself, I have heard similar lists from wherever I go, and only to gain sympathy or greater esteem from the group. This now has nothing to do with Cj's post.

Its like wearing medals you did not earn.

Its like the clowns in the scriptures that thought they could buy the power of the Holy Ghost.

PTSD is not something you earn. It is a natural reaction to an un-natural event.

Each point Cj has outlined should evoke a response to each of us.

remember there are a lot of wounded in here.

dana

[ajusmc]

Sorry..if I offended you too. Are there any more who are offended? Now is the time to jump in if you have a mind to do so. I am here and ready to take my punishment! I do request that anyone that wants to jump in here reads all the posts in context and doesn't just single out one angry burst and assume it means something it doesn't. At least I would hope that that is what you out there would do. However........... Your response, AJ, surprised me. You really don't have to get on the defensive with me, you know. This was all understood and settled by myself and Trooper before anyone else came along. Jesus is Saviour to us all and I think it is time to put these responses and thoughts to Him in prayer and cease fire! If people are reading these posts here, and misunderstanding what was going on when they were made, perhaps we all need to count to ten. Not only me! cj

Carole, I wasn't trying to offend or defend with my post. Other than what I have read here, the wording had me bewildered. Like Dana said above here that a single word can have a different meaning to each person, but it's the same word. After reading your post, I made the assumtion that you were speaking in general, not of yourself. Which made me wonder about all the rest out here that suffer from PTSD and like we were taught in boot camp if we don't understand something, then ask. The dumbest question is the one that is never asked, and in turn you never find the answer for what leaves you not knowing.

[cj]

happysmile To Aj, Dana, Trooper and all who will read this,

Don't any of you feel bewildered by what I have been saying or rather, trying to say. Remember..I am female and last I heard, women have a job to do and that's to keep the men bewildered. (At least that's what Butch says I am best at.):funny:

Just trying to lighten up things a little.

If I, in any way, seem to be too deeply involved in what you guys talk about and maybe what some of you girls think about but for reasons only you know, won't talk about freely in front of people, don't be offended. I'm talking in general now to anyone who might read this. When I posted my list of qualifications....I used the word qualifications in repeat of what Trooper said. The list was not, and as Dana and AJ realize now, was absolutely not referring to anybody else in this world except what I had to prove I had done and where I'd been to Social Security. Women just didn't get disability for PTSD back when I got mine. My counselor told me, 'he has died from a parasitic disease he contracted in Vietnam' I was the first woman in our state to get 100% disability through Social Security. I had to have affidavits from several counselors, 2 psychiatrists, family members, work history and even show my passport which I thankfully had kept as a souvineer and answer many questions. I never figured I would get it but I did. Yes there ARE too many wannabees in this world and I hate it as much as you. The Hall of Shame has far too many names on it.

What I have seen here is so much under the surface rumbling and even playing mind games with eachother and it is all so senseless when persons aren't really confronting their anger and coming clean with their own selves. You know the old saying. To thine own self be true. I get in the mirror every day and confront myself and my feelings. Some days I don't want to face things. Some days I do. But whatever I decide, I know that it all has to come out eventually and will whether I want it to or not. If I don't deal with myself...some innocent person, loved one, maybe even a child will get the result before it is done and the consequences will be far worse than if I had dealt with it that day before going on with my life. It can be said we are afraid of our true selves. That is a truth I believe many of us can say. God has to play a major part in our lives. Its a hard stack of red flags to deal with alone.

I won't say any more right now but I welcome anyone who is unhappy with me or thinks maybe I'm full of .....whatever, or is still angry. Maybe some just ran away. That old "fight or flight" response when things creep in a little too close. I have to learn to control my anger too. Butch (usmc26th, hubby) for those who don't know, has to deal with his own responses and anger also every single day. We all do who are trapped by PTSD. So.........at that....please do have a good day today.

[ajusmc]

OK, I asked for that one and Lou is right, you women do have a way to keep us men bewildered :funny: .

Not willing to take flight, and not ready to "fight". In this country as many around this world, it is a man's world. We were brought up this way. So your fight to get your rating for the disability is commendable. It is written in Genesis 2:21-22, that our Lord God took one of Adams ribs while in a deep sleep and covered it with flesh. Which God had taken from man, he made woman. With my understanding of the passages woman was created as an equal to man. Even in todays world, it is still not that way, many women such as yourself, have had a long road to walk to be treated with respect as an equal, still many are not treated this way. I have always felt that if a woman is entitled to something or is equally quilified, then by all means she should have her do right. As far as mind games and rumblings that we read or hear of, must likely they were in disbelieve but didn't want to ask the question that I did for clairifcation of the post that started this thread. To these people, they need to step up, open thier minds and ask the questions about what they don't understand. Don't wait for someone else to ask because they are doing the same thing. Waiting for someone else to ask. Isn't the whole concept of Pointman, to open our minds and hearts to our Lord, so that we can help others fight the demons within them? Also by opening up our own minds we learn and grow, enabling us to better help others. Any takers on these thoughts? I know that many here have questions, don't be afarid to ask. I have included my "count to 10", so you have a chance to think about your questions or comments. Time for some coffee.

[cj]

First of all, I fully agree with what you are saying and doing. As far as equality goes, I too believe God made us equal. But you know what? As a woman...My idea of what that really means may differ from a lot of women and get some flack for saying this, as a woman, equality can be construed to be there amongst various viewpoints.
It works like this. Yes, in todays world, women want to go out there and be paid equal wages for equal work. And so they should, if they are doing a job with no concessions made due to their sex. But in very subtle unnoticeable ways, concessions often are made. The men who are saying nothing "equal rights, you know," see the little concessions. The women don't recognize the concessions and often think they really are being treated the same on every level. The pay being equal...who's to know?
I think men are much better able to do certain types of work much better than women. And in that same breath, women are much better doing certain things than men. Now that isn't meant to be 100% true as nothi ng in this world is 100% other than the reality of God. When God created woman, he gave her the job of childbirth and all those things that physically a man doesn't do and cannot do. But she needs him to help make that baby and raise it in ways only a father can do. Bosh on thoses who say children don't need a father. I had to raise four of the little critters without and many things came up that needed a fathers guidance, strength, and a mans view on things. My daughter missed not having the male presence in the home, being a daddy's girl and although married with 2 children of her own, as her mother who loves her very much, he has the patience only God can give. She can be quite impossible. The boys gave me sore arms and legs, back muscles and you name it trying to give them the rough and tumble playtimes they were missing. I finally in self preservation went to one of their baseball coaches and enlisted his help to act like a big brother for some of the things I coouldn't really do or talk with them freely about. Yes, women and men are equal but not necessarily in the same mindset or work abilities and we definitely think differently about things on the average. That doesn't mean one is better or worse, just different and too bad some of these "liberated females" can't get that through their heads. Or men who berate women. So that's my contribution today. A little something on my views as a woman. Respecting each other really isn't all that hard. Butch and I have a lot of fun with the "who's the boss" argument. I tell him he's the boss when I let him be and he tells me he's in charge, he's in charge and we don't worry about such things. Because respect solves that problem real quick. He respects my views, I respect his and we work the answers out together. Little decisions we go ahead and make ourselves. Big ones, we discuss and if we still can't come to a conclusion, I give it to him to decide. And I think that is what God meant with the statement concerning men as Head of the house. Probably a lot of women disagree with that one. Their choice! That's my input.
If someone gets angry then we'll deal with anger. Whatever...I'm not choosy. cj

[Phantomblooper]

I had my first experience in the arena of death on Sunday, September 4th 1983. Fifty caliber rounds were being shot at my feet as myself, (1st platoon guide) and the corpsman were the last ones to advance to the line of fire and take our positions in the bunkers. The whistle of RPG rounds was in the air all around a round and me impacted on the bunker that we dove in to take cover before moving to the platoons main position. I was already viligent, knowing that the situation was changing daily in Lebanon. When the harassing fire stopped we moved to the main line with rest of the platoon. Incoming rounds were coming in to our platoons perimeter. Due to the rules of engagement that we were to adhere to we had to call in everything and get the okay before we could return fire and take out sniper positions. The okay from higher command was finally given from another higher command and another…. and the snipers were squashed. This is what I refer to as my baptism under fire. The whole episode lasted about four hours, but henceforth we were on full alert 24-7. I realized that day that I was not firing in a live fire exercise or firing down range at a dog target. I have seen death in my life before this day, not war related and I also have helped comfort the dying. I saw on that day wounds that my corpsman treated from my platoon and we were lucky we had no KIA’s and when I called in the report all was walking wounded from RPG shrapnel, non life threatening we were able to treat on the line and called in no medavacs. I saw the advancing snipers being taken out by a M-60 machinegun, a life destroyed in a matter of minutes. I also came to the realization that it could have been one of my men that’s life was taken in those few minutes that seemed like so many hours
A few days after this our company’s positions were moved and were split up by platoons to guard the Beirut International airport. Our battalion as a whole had been taking harassing fire resulting in more WIA’s and KIA’s. Casulties or wounded did not occur on a daily basis, however we were taking sniper fire and RPG rounds almost daily. As in all situations nighttime was very vigilant. We were still maintaining our patrols and our presence,” Showing the Flag”. The situation in Beirut, Lebanon was of a political in nature. We were still doing our normal activities and we still had the rules of engagement to adhere to. Trying to re-enforce bunkers and fill sand bags was a constant job. We were sending troops out to the Navy ships offshore for a few days R&R a few from each platoon and the ships would sometimes leave the area to go to Greece or another port of call to restock and hence the men on board would go with the Navy and take liberty call, while the Navy was refueling and restocking. We were contending with the “Dog and Pony Shows” on a daily basis. Congressmen and dignitaries were coming in by the chopper full. The media was embedded for the long haul and posting for national and local papers. They were good in their own right and a pain in ours.
Around the 1st or 2nd week of October 1983 I sent a few men out to the USS Iwo Jima for a few days R&R the ship was sent somewhere and made a port call. While they were gone we were getting hit at our position by allot of sporadic sniper fire and more RPG rounds. My Plt. Sgt. used a LAW to take out one position; this quelled the situation for a few hours. Our LAW was equivalent to the RPG so we were allowed to return fire with it according to the rules of engagement. The firing continued off and on sporadically, and we were getting allot of attention from another sniper. His position would be plotted and we would try to take him out. This went on for a couple more hours. One of the men who went out on the ship for R&R was an M203 grenadier and his weapon was left in my custody. Since I was the platoon guide I had all the C-Rats, ammo, weapons and the corpsman in my bunker. I went in and got a M203 that was left behind and a bandolier of HE rounds. I had the FO plot where the sniper was, got permission from my Lt. To fire and fired a succession of approximately 20 HE rounds into the position. I guess you can say that we no longer heard from that a sniper or any sniper anymore that day or for about a week. (As a side note this is how I came up with my screen name Phantomblooper, their were only three of us in my platoon at the time Vietnam era and my SSGT gave me that name, although none of us ever served in the RVN.) We were still on high alert. We were sending out squad size patrols a few times a day. The battalion was still taking WIA’s and KIA’s from harassing sniper fire, RPG’s and fire fights. Then the most devastating day came when the BLT 1/8,24th MAU headquarters barracks was bombed at approximately 6:20 on Sunday October 23rd 1983. We knew something bad had happened! The ground shook in shockwaves. My platoons position was approximately a mile and a half away from the BLT headquarters positioned right off the BIA runway and tarmac. We knew exactly which building was the headquarters and now it was gone in a matter of minutes. The after effects of that explosion were enough to knock over all the C-Rat’s, ammo crates and weapons in my concrete bunker. We were wiped out of our headquarters element and most of our attachments were killed or wounded. I had just sent men over to the BLT on Saturday to replace the men we had on mess duty. Our Dragon section was sent over to the BLT and I was to receive replacements the next day. My CO, his HQ element and the platoon commanders went to the BLT with the all the companies’ corpsman and a security team from the line platoons for recovery and aid. I did not go to the BLT right away on that day. I was now acting Plt. Sgt. and the Plt. Sgt. was now acting Plt. Cmdr. We were in chaos and everyone was holding what was left of the battalion together. Around 1200 or so I had to take supplies to the BLT headquarters and stayed for approximately an hour and a half and helped with which was now almost considered a recovery operation. Then I came back to my platoons position, and resumed the duties assigned. On that day 241 men perished from a cowardly attack. Collectively 270 men KIA and approximately 151 WIA from 1982-1984.We were likened to sitting ducks at a carnival shooting gallery.
My unit, what was left, continued to take sniper fire and RPG rounds until we re-embarked onboard the ships in mid-November. We had no more casualties to my knowledge. Our mission was still to keep the BIA open and “Show the Flag”.
I stayed in the Marine Corps on active duty and was still what I like to call a Marines, Marine.I wanted revenge for our fallen comrades, hoping to go back one day. Keeping up the role waiting for my twenty, so I could retire.
Then it hit me like a ton of bricks packed with an explosive charge! Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, something I never heard of before! This happened approximately two and a half years after my 7-month tour in Beirut, Lebanon in 1983.Something now I live with 24-7,365/366. Sometime everyday my mind is in Beirut, Lebanon 1983. From September to November is a very short time. I did not fight everyday. Actually, I only fought twice. Life threatening experiences of rounds impacting close to my body and shrapnel flying all around me I lived with just about daily for a couple months. The carnage and destruction I saw in an hour and a half is enough to stay with me for the rest of my life. I stayed awake most nights and had to fight myself to sleep when I could because of the alert status we were on and my responsibilities for my men and our mission. No different than any other war or conflict.
According to the Navy doctors and the VA shrinks I meet the qualifications for PTSD from the DSM manual. This has been going on for approximately 19 years now, it has affected my life but it also has affected my wife and children’s life and anyone that I have contact with on a daily basis. I get the monthly check from the VA, but I honestly feel that my wife deserves for her name to be on the check right beside mine. She has not met the qualifications set forth by the DSM manual for PTSD, but she has met the qualifications of PTSD by living with me.
Facts and figures never tell the whole story of human suffering. Two hundred forty-one is only a number, but to me it represents the lives lost of so many more. The 132,000 pounds of medical supplies, emergency equipment and body bags flown from the ships offshore was astronomical; but that single shot of morphine needed to ease the pain and suffering of one Marine, sailor or soldier has more impact. The rumble from the BLT HQ’s stretching for hundreds of meters along the runway was very impressive; but a friend dying while trying to help is unforgettable. A crater forty feet across and ten feet deep created by 12,000 pounds of explosives is grotesquely shocking; but a vacant hole left by a husband, son, father, brother or comrade who isn’t coming home can never be filled.
Suffering and death in monumental proportions, unless you are there strike no nerve. A fleeting wave of sympathy may come to pass, but then a new thought and a new day dawns.
That unforgettable day in October 1983 gave the definition of devastation and despair a meaning that I never experienced before. The mission was one of peacekeeping. “They Came In Peace” Rest my brothers for we will remember and never let your memory die. Everyone has a story and this one is mine. It is accurate to the best of my knowledge. It is not in the entirety or I could be here another two and a half months. Semper-Fi! “Never Forget” Chuck Hall

[danausmc]

Chuck,
One saying from our generation is "Welcome Home." What does that mean?
You are home among brothers that understand the loneliness, the fear, the adrenalin, the horrors that you have so aptly described. You have posted so much that to try and respond all at once would not do you or your post justice.

Each step in your post brought back a certain and different memory for me and my own experience. You
are right about evoking a certain sympathy, but if you were not there, it passes. I suppose if we could fathom the depth of the hurt and carry it all, from all that have experienced death and war, we would not be able to function.

That to me is what Jesus meant when he said "Take my yoke, because it is easy", and give the rest to Him.

I first got shot at on my first day. Just like you, rounds falling around my feet, but none found there mark. We all got down and a tank rolled up and squirted napalm all over the ambush site and the shooting stopped.

The next day, the same tank hit a mine and the track peeled off, and ripped off the fender and hit a new guy riding on top in the face and killed him instantly. He took one last breath and his head opened up and came back together. Can't get that out of my head. Ever. But you know, the pain is gone, just sadness remains.

I did not think PTSD was an issue until I had my tonsils out around my 40th Birthday. I was off two weeks from work and one day I was looking at my Vietnam pictures and a friend came over to visit and I was crying looking at them. (friend is a Vietnam Vet). All I could think about was , as you said, the hole in families, the fact these guys never got the chance to grow up, have families, jobs, houses, get old, you know, all the stuff we take for granted. I never cried aboutanything before that, except when my brothers friend put the shotgun in his mouth.

Then after that, all I could think about was Vietnam. Everything suffered. Mostly my family. Lost a real good job, friends, and almost the family too.

But God had a plan and it was not easy. Still working it out daily. I cant and will not forget. I will not forget the sacrifice of all of us, but in the perspective that in order to honor their sacrifice, and memory, I need to do the best I can and carry on and help those that remain.

[MarinemomDeb]

Not working today, so had plenty of time to get online and do some posting. Came here and was reading over the posts. But then a really strange thing happened, I just busted into tears and COULD NOT stop crying for 20-30 minutes or more. Why? Good question.... I personally have never experienced PTSD.....maybe this story will help.

My uncle was a Pacific Marine during WWII....Okinawa. I grew up adoring this man with every ounce of my being.... and not understanding (until I was an adult and started asking questions) why he was such a troubled man. And troubled he was. He was a drunk most of his life and definitely the black sheep of the family. Growing up I never could understand how someone who was a drunk could also be the decorated war hero that everyone also said he was. But mainly everyone centered on the fact that he was a drunk. My father was the one family member who tried his hardest to understand and help my uncle everyway he could. My father adored his big brother and he never forgot that WWII changed him. When I was a young adult, I finally started asking the questions....what happened? My uncle was an Amphibious Tractor Crewman. One story is that he watched as a guy in the tank with him got shot right between the eyes as they were moving along. The other is that one day as they were all taking a rest eating lunch in a bunker, a Jap up in a tree threw a grenade down on them. My uncle happened to look up in time to give a warning shout and immediately started coming out of the hole. He was wounded in the backside, but managed to climb out, where to his horror, he discovered the other guys didn't make it. The story goes that he grabbed his rifle and even though pretty badly injured himself, took out the Jap. Details will be lost forever I guess. My mom said he only told this one when he was falling down drunk, and that she heard this one from him only once or twice. Mostly he wouldn't tell what happened. He was a tortured man...when he was discharged from the Marines. He came home and according to my father had a very difficult time, so he joined the Army. When he was discharged from that....came home and same old thing....couldn't fit in. So he joined the Air Force. Makes ya' wonder, doesn't it? But he went AWOL from the Air Force.....ran all the way back to VA and hid out. My father says he was in the Greyhound station waiting to go to Great Lakes, IL (time is now Korea) and he encountered my uncle.... in the custody of the MP's. He said, my uncle looked at him and grinned real big and just said, "Well, B lue(my father's nickname), I believe you will be home before I will. " Sad, very sad. Don't know the details of what happened then, but according (again) to my father, he was of course court martialed and discharged and lost all his benefits. Honorable discharge from the Marines with good conduct and a dishonorable discharge from the Air Force. My uncle had received a Purple Heart and a Navy Cross for his time in the Pacific....my father saw them. But somewhere along the line, maybe on one of his drunks, they disappeared. We just don't know where they went.
1986.....after a life as far as I am concerned....was as honorable as any, my uncle died from cirrhosis and lung cancer. He had quit drinking and smoking about 10 years before, but I guess it was too late. He had lived alone for the last part of his life and worked for my dad. He had nine nieces and he adored us all. We adored him back. But in the end, he died alone, in his bed with no one around. Believe me, his nieces had offered, all of us, to stay with him. He refused. His ex-wife came to the funeral, she had always kept in contact with him, even though she remarried. She just couldn't live with his demons I guess. She was truly heart broken and the family treated her as if she were still family. Very sad.
Fast forward to 2001. My father has never forgotten his big brother...never. Nor have I. I decided to try to replace the medals,etc. that had been lost. Was going to present them as a Christmas gift to my father. Sometimes I wish I had never tried. Went to the courthouse and got his record. Nothing, absolutely nothing is listed. No wounds, no Purple Hearts...nothing. Honorable discharge and the paper almost makes it sound as if my uncle kinda "hung out" in the Pacific. I delayed for as long as I could letting my father see the record. Finally I had to let him see it. The pain on his face is one I will never forget. At first he was angry....said he saw the medals himself and that my uncle died with shrapnel STILL working its way out of his body. Now he never mentions it. Wish I had left it alone. It is like the final insult to a man who had already suffered so much. I read online how much trouble vets have with the VA and I know I don't have the energy to fight them over this. Someone on a forum told me if I could find some vets that were with him......WWII?! Yeah, right! I don't know why it is me that carries this torch.....everyone in my family knows it and they don't understand either, but they respect it. Maybe they all think eventually I will be able to set the record straight. I doubt it.
Anyway that is my story....and it probably makes me sound like a nutcase. I'm just a niece, right? Reading the PTSD posts touched something.... a nerve maybe. I don't know. But something broke loose and I thought I would not stop crying. I can't pretend to understand what you all have suffered but I do know what it felt like to be a witness to a life that was nearly ruined by war. And the agony of not being able to make it better for someone you loved dearly.
I was asked to post this on the qualifications thread, so I decided to be brave or foolish, whichever and do so. Is it a qualification , I don't know. I know that by listening to what some of you have posted , I get a little window into some of what my uncle endured. It sheds some understanding into the demons that chased him all his life. Thank you for that....

[Phantomblooper]

My heart and my eyes cry everyday for men like your Uncle, Debbie. When I hear that the WW II veterans are leaving us rapidly everyday. When men and women of the Korean conflict are fighting daily personal battles and sometimes losing. When the nightmares cannot be erased from all the Vietnam vets that I know. When my fallen comrades met their demise in that two years I cry for them. When I turn on the TV or pickup the newspaper I get angry then I cry sometimes silently for the fallen of Iraq and Afghanistan and the “War on Terror.” My heart and body cries everyday! Sometimes no one sees the tears fall and sometimes I cry like a little child. “Big men don’t cry’ is macho dream. When we were doing our jobs and our mission we had no time to cry. Now I honestly believe I have too much time to think and it then opens my mind to anger and then inward or outward tears. On my introduction post on this site I said that I spent sometime in a program for PTSD at Salisbury, NC VAMC. One of the therapies was to visit the wall in DC. And we also visited the memorial in Arlington cemetery for the Beirut victims given by a group called “No Greater Love.” Anyway we went to the wall first and had a little prayer, ceremony and wreath laying. That is when the little tears started to run down my cheek then we were on our own for a few hours. I know names on that wall from my childhood. Brothers of kids I went to school with in my hometown, but I could not remember the names. So I helped my buddies find their friends names and helped them do a rubbing when they could not Anyhow I helped a buddy of mine find a name and after the name was found I stepped back to give him time alone to ponder his thoughts and stepped back up to the wall to help him up and get a rubbing. I was not with him in that far off land but I sure did hug him and cry with him that day. When I wrote my story. I also cried for a good while and left the computer came back cried some more and finished. Sometimes an intrusive thought will get you to have a few tears to run down the cheeks I am truly glad that you don’t have PTSD. And I wish that the situation were different for your father and your family. Thanks for your post! I know that one day we will be able to understand this. In one respect it is also comforting to know that I am not in the boat floating on the sea of PTSD and anger alone.Thanks! Semper-Fi!! Chuck Hall

[MarinemomDeb]

for your kind words and thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Like you said it helps to know you are not alone. In my daily life I guess I am a little bit of a puzzle to people. They think I am a little "touched in the head" when it comes to vets and the military. Intense....yeah, that's a word I hear a lot from them...too intense. But that's okay...I never let it bother me. Sometimes I just wanta shake 'em real hard...but of course I don't do that either.
Had the opportunity to talk to my Marine son tonight. He has 2 days left with the PMO and it will be back to the airwing....he is aviation accounting. He is stationed at Beaufort MCAS. I think he just wanted to talk about ordinary things and ramble a bit. I think there is a lot on his mind. He told me he had gone to the PX at PI today ...... to help a buddy do some shopping. His buddy is going to Iraq next Thursday. But he is just one of four of my son's buddies headed for Iraq. So a whole new round of tears will start. With four of his buddies in Iraq this time, I just hope I am up to some of the phone calls that I know will come my way. It is a real fine line between being glad you were not the one to go and feeling like a nothing because you didn't go.
But it is good to come on here and know that there are others who understand very well. That's why I wish more people would post ....everyone has a story, some thoughts, a scripture to share or something of use. This is a unique situation....somewhere where if you talk military and God in the same breath....it is just fine. Priceless...how many places do you know of where someone will understand both concepts and not think you are crazy? We are blessed to have this forum.

[danausmc]

Some real heart wrenching stuff here.
Chuck I understand what you mean and it is something I really have a hard time dealing with on a daily basis. I hear all kinds of stories and mostly just listen. Deb, I have heard that same story a hudred times if I have heard it once and it is new every time. There are so many hurting people and certainly not enough that care to be involved.
Sometimes it seems overwhelming and then I realize the promises of scripture are true and I just keep going.

The very first time I went to the Wall in Wshington, I said to myself, how bad could it be? And it is after all, just a piece of granite. At least that is how it went until I found the name on panel 40W of my friend , now forever 19.
There was a lady standing right next to me, with a young girl about the age of my daughter and she was rubbing a name and she looked up, I looked up, our eyes met and all the pain she was feeling was like a telegraph to my eyes. Hurt real bad. She cried. I cried. I gave her a hug. She cried some more. What a disaster.
My chrome sunglasses did not hide it from her. No talking. Just pain. So that was my first visit. Every time it is a new emotion. My friend I drove with did not see the encounter and did not understand what had happened.
And so it goes.
Thanks to both of you for posting.

[ajusmc]

As I have read and re-read your post many times over the last couple of days. I have had a hard time trying figure what I wanted to say, while you were thier and I was a in a support role at the time. My duties at the time were security & CACo, stationed on Long Island. The duties of the CACo were to field any casulities within the 1st District and assign them to the I&I Staff. In turn they would notify go to the homes of the families and notify them in on what has happened.

About 5 months later I recieved my rocker and orders to report to 1/8. Got assigned to Charlie Co, many off the troops that were under me had been thier when the blast happened. They were on patrol at the time, and inturn returned to the CP to help in the efforts to find anyone that they could. Many of the troops that I picked up had the lost feeling because of what they went thru. Alot of these men resented me at first, but after a short period of time, they started to talk to me about thier feelings and what they went thru. Many times I sent these men on a working party to avoid them getting office hours. We had a 27 year old boot LT the was trying to prove himself, the LT seemed to be of the opinion that nothing could be wrong if you stayed by the book. Many respects I got lucky dealing with this LT. The Company Commander and I had worked together in 76 and were involved with the evacuations.

We did another Med pump and returned to the states. When the memorial was finished at Camp Johnson, I took a small group thier as reps of 1/8. All came back in the minds and hearts of these men while we were thier, while these men were dealing with thier own feelings, we also had the family members of alot of the fallen Marines and Corpsman thier. The lost look in the eyes, tears, broken dreams, shattered families, the names that I know on the wall and the names that I knew from my duties in NY. All these factors still come to mind often and the eye sweat takes over. But like you say in your last line, "Never Forget", not on my watch. Semper Fi Marine and welcome home.
:cross_glo